Examples of Joe Louis' chin?

I don't begrudge anyone for getting hurt or knocked down if they're fighting at a high enough level, especially at HW, where large weight disparities can be in play.

The thing with Holmes is that he was only ever dropped or rocked by huge shots right on the button from 200+ athletic men. Contrast that to Louis, who tended to get hurt by relatively smallish or crude punchers, and the difference in durability is, I think, evident.

Louis got to his feet against the vast majority of punchers he fought, but does that mean he takes Shavers's overhand right to his chin and still gets to his feet? I have a hard time seeing it.

All a fair summation. My own thoughts are he has as good a chin in his era as Louis did in his. Neither man was glass jawed by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Of course you would. That's because you can't process in your mind the idea that punching power and ranking might be unrelated.

So you're saying it's impossible to build a case that, say, Oliver McCall might have an exceptional chin because he was never visibly hurt or dropped by any of the punchers he faced?

Possibly. A lot hinges on how well Foreman controls the distance, and whether Louis is able to get past his jab. That's a debate for a different thread though.

 

That's a pretty good argument in favour of Louis actually. Baer cracks him with some hard shots that I don't recall him doing the first time I watched that fight. What you take from that depends on how highly you rank Baer as a puncher, I suppose.

 

This is a useful starting point (much better than the boxrec/Ring rankings-based arguments). Looked like the first punch missed but one of the follow ups definitely landed flush. Recovered well during the 2:10 exchange.

 

I can appreciate where you are coming from. Louis fought a smaller average opponent than the last few decades but he did fight a few bigger harder punching men as well. Just for the record Isaac was sub 190 but Holmes was also very early career. Weaver was barely 200 but a big hitter for sure, as i suspect plenty of guys have been around the 200 mark both Holmes era and Louis'.

So much depends on how you perceive era's and some of their practitioners.

 

True, and that so often comes down to unquantifiable things like how athletic you perceive a fighter to be or how hard you think they hit. For the record, I've softened a little on my initial stance regarding Louis's punch resistance, though I still can't consider him to have had a good jaw historically speaking. I think he would have had a hard time with the larger heavyweights of the 80s, 90s and 2000s, mostly due to the wear and tear he'd accrue over fights, though he'd've been perfectly fine among the cruiserweights.

 

Braddock,B Baer,Schmeling,Galento,Marciano,Walcott.Who else are you referring to? Four of those are in the top 100 best punchers list

 

Janitor, maybe we disagree on this key point. Most of his opponents were not very good. You can call Galento, B Baer, and a rusty Braddock " world class ". Looking at the films many champions post-Louis have a field day with these guys.

Some of the opponents I don't think are very good seldom hit Louis, but produced knockdowns when did.

It's on the films, watch them.

I would not put Marciano or Schmeling, two sub 200 pounds fighters who Ko'd Louis in the same class as Galento, B Baer, or Galento as the later were not nearly as good. We know, you think Marciano lacked one punch power.

But they all have something in common, flooring Joe Louis.

Other lighter punchers like Conn and Farr stunned Louis. I summed it up for you a few posts ago.

 

It doesn't really matter whether they are very good or not, because he practically cleaned out the era over a fifteen year period.

There have been eras where the best contenders weren't all that.

There have been eras where there was not a great fighter.

There has never been an era where there were not a lot of dangerous punchers in the division.

Ultimately you have to explain their failure to stop him, either by his chin or his defense.

There is not third way where he had nothing, but was still somehow successful at not being stopped.

 

Let's start with a full version of Louis Baer:

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Look at around 7.53 in round one, when Baer catches Louis on the ropes and really roughs him up, throwing in a few head buts to boot. Louis is totally unphased, and just fires back with combinations, almost seeming to say f*** you.

At 10.23 in round two Baer catches Louis in the corner and roughs him up again. I think this is the incident alluded to by Unforgiven.

In round three, there are a few uppercuts and rabbit punches that look like they land, but it is hard to be sure due to the position of the fighters. Baer throws in a few sly head buts to boot. Watch from 12.00.

 

No I've never said Marciano lacked one punch power,what I said was he seldom ko'd an opponent with one punch his kos usually came after he had landed a steady bombardment of punches on his opponent and ground him down and I cited Cokkel,Charles,Louis,Lastarza,Moore ,as examples.
It's not my fault you have reading , writing, grammar ,and spelling issues.
Farr never stunned Louis ,why you keep repeating this is a mystery ,but then you repeat lies over and over don't you?

 

You said Marciano was not a true one punch kayo artist. Yes-- you said it. Are you denying it now? Meanwhile, the Layne and Walcott films disagree

Why don't you watch the films for a change, anyone can copy and paste from a book. You come across as lazy and misinformed. It’s there on film, Farr stunned Louis. Watch one day, you just might learn...

 

evidence? being unbeaten world champion for 11 years against the top opposition for most of that, that would...cut it.

 

I have the films and have owned them for over 50 years! Regarding Layne, Marciano targeted his soft midsection to soften him up and slow him down for the ko later.Walcott 1 was a result of an unceasing attack which showed the older man retreating increasingly to the ropes.
Walcott 2 .I think Walcott could have gotten up and decided not to, and many ,many of those ringside thought the same.
You tried to put words in my mouth which is rather silly for a sub normal chap like yourself who cannot articulate his own thoughts or type them in a comprehensible fashion.
You've come badly unstuck with your thread and the agenda you constantly push concerning Louis , and I'm very pleased about that!lol

 

I put no words in your mouth. Did you say this or not? Marciano was not a true one punch kayo artist.