Muhammad Ali through old camera technology

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Oct 16, 2018.


  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Here is Ali’s fight with Lamar Clark

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    It was filmed with older cameras, even for the time period, with the same production used for fights 20 years prior or so.

    What you see is a clearly a handicapped version of what Ali really looked like in the ring. From this film, you can appreciate Ali through a “black and white lense,” but he appears woefully inadequate compared to more modern fighters.

    He looks front heavy. Open. Straight up.

    He looks fast and skilled, and can punch, but only for the standards of old school fighters. He doesn’t look prepared to fight the likes of Tommy Morrison, Buster Douglas, Lennox Lewis, etc. If you didn’t know it was Ali in that film you may think he’d get eaten up by those more modern fighters. Don’t get me wrong, he looks really good in the film, but based on this type of film, would you think he was the greatest fighter to ever grace the ring?

    It’s only until you see his other fights in far greater quality that you see the Muhammad Ali you know. The one with the facial expressions that exude a deep awareness. The lightening reflexes, speed, and footwork. The punching technique that was extremely hard to deal with. The combination of physicality with authentic traits. The unorthodox tricky style.

    But those things simply don’t appear in the Lamar Clark fight film due to the quality of the production. He looks almost like many other old school fighters confined to antiquated camera technology. You can see flashes of his brilliance if you look with a keen eye. But you don’t feel it. You can hardly see 90% of the picture of what Ali truly was in the ring.

    Now imagine what even worse camera tech did for guys like Louis, Dempsey, Johnson, and the countless of accomplished fighters under them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Louis ,Dempsey ,and Johnson look just fine on film.
    Ali was 19 years old, having his 6th pro fight.
     
  3. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Clay actually looks surprisingly good there considering the old technology and his career stage. I expected noticeably worse.
     
  4. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    But it’s not the same.

    Had his entire career been filmed in that manner you would never have seen his greatest moments the way you remember them today.

    You would never see his facial expressions, his bulging eyes that would bait his opponents in.

    You’d never see the subtleties of his skills like this:
    https://giphy.com/gifs/black-and-white-boxing-7PwzEk6YKmPNC

    Or like this
    https://gifer.com/en/IycO

    You’d barely be able to see his amazing slips like he performed in the Terrell fight.

    There’s no emotion or feel in the Lamar Clark film. No personality. No real sense of his musculature, his reactions, his accuracy. It’s a shadow of Ali.

    A significant portion of what made him great to watch in the ring is stripped.

    Anyone who believes there is no significant difference is in my opinion being obtuse, or they have a low IQ.
     
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  5. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Ali looks just fine in this film.
    But he doesn’t look like Ali the fighter we all know and love.
     
  6. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I must have that then Rez, because he looked fantastic to me!
     
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  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    So his entire career could be filmed in this manner and you’d see everything in his performances that you’ve seen with the cameras used at the time?

    What about classic career moments like this?
    https://gfycat.com/acclaimedinstructivedove

    You realize that the quality and detail in this clip that makes it a memorable moment would be completely lost using that Lamar Clark film technology, right?
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Nope!
     
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  9. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Sure. And Inception would be just as riveting with 1930s cameras.

    Believe me, no difference.
     
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  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    No difference, I believe you!
     
  11. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Hard to see anything with this poor camera technology. Which one's Clay?
     
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  12. Pat M

    Pat M Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali looks good in that video, one of the most impressive displays of skill I've seen from him. The old school camera doesn't detract from the footwork, balance, movement, or the knee bend. This video makes me question whether many world class amateurs get better after they turn pro? In Ali's case he did get grow physically after this fight, he was around 192, Clark was 181 so he did get bigger and stronger, but his skills are there. This was Ali's sixth pro fight and his opponent was 43-2.

    Although Ali was an Olympic champion, he didn't have the benefit of fighting in the World Championships or World Series of Boxing like Lomachenko, Usyk, Joyce, or Hrgovic. It's no surprise that a Hrgovic can dominate Amir Mansour early in his pro career or that others can fight for a title almost immediately. I think that Liston, Johanson, and Patterson would have had their hands full if they had been in the ring with that 19 year old Ali.
     
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  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I've been wondering about this for a while now too. How many pro fights does it take for a decorated amateur boxer to approach his peak performance level as a pro? I think the conventional wisdom probably tends to overestimate how much "seasoning" it takes before a guy truly enters his prime (it doesn't help that the boxrec warriors tend to measure prime based on the names on one's resume rather than on their actual performance in the ring).
     
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  14. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Corbett looks a bit better in that footage than he did against Fitzsimmons.
     
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  15. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1961-04-19 : Muhammad Ali 192½ lbs beat LaMar Clark 181½ lbs by KO at 1:27 in round 2 of 8

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    • Location: Freedom Hall, Louisville, Kentucky, USA
    • Referee: Don Asbury
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    • This was the first fight in which Clay predicted the KO round.
    • Clay put Clark down twice in the first round and once in the second.
    Quotes
    • "Clark has one thing in mind and that is to knock the other guy out. I just hope and pray he doesn't hit the ring post with a wild swing. And as for the referee, he'd better be ready to duck at all times." - Marv Jenson, Clark's manager, before the fight
    • "When I'm through with him, he'll need a groundhog to deliver his mail." - Cassius Clay before the fight
    • "My first prediction was against LaMar Clark. I just had the feeling that he must fall. I said he would fall in two and he did." - Cassius Clay
     
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