Boxers most consider great, that you don't

Benitez

 

Where did I say I had any beef with him?

If you think he’s ‘great’, then me not rating him as highly as you do is why I’ve included him in my post on this thread.

And why do my issues with him being considered a borderline top 10 bantamweight of all time (higher for some) have to be tied with his not fighting Pintor? Although that fight would’ve undeniably raised the stock of the winner.

It’s also telling that you picked him out of my list.

 

I am sure people know I am a Chandler guy, if not the avatar is another clue. I also think Chandler would have beat Pintor (and while in the minority I think he would have beaten Gomez as well) but not sure about the ducking by either guy.

A shame both guys really needed this fight to solidify and cement thier resume and legacy. My understanding was (from interviews with Jeff) that both guys were agreeable to the fight. The conflict was Don King (big surprise), stipulated that he would gain a controlling interest in Chandlers career should he win, and Chandlers loyalty of his team and distaste for King was the sticking point.

 

Pryor

 

James Tony and David Tua

Edit: Tua might be a poor example since few if any consider him an ATG, more along the lines of some hypothetical H2H destroyer.

 

Pernell Whitaker.

I never found him interesting personally. He had no personality at all.

I find defensive specialists dull. Aside from a one-off fight here or there, he tended not to display much power.

I can't think of any bouts he engaged in that I'd consider a classic. If he fought an exciting fighter, it was usually one of the more dull outings from that fighter.

When his skills started to fade, I found him to be a sore loser.

If I never saw another film or clip of Pernell Whitaker ever again I'd be totally fine with that.

There was just nothing about him I found fascinating or compelling or interesting or remotely entertaining.

I would never recommend any of his fights to anyone. I can't think of one I'd consider a "thriller." In fact, if you showed a typical Whitaker fight to someone, I'd worry it would turn them "off" the sport. Most of his bouts weren't a "fun watch."

The people who support him tend to be the types who say you have to watch Whitaker "closely" and you have to "learn to appreciate" his skills, as they bore you to death.

It's almost like "if you don't recognize how great he is there's something wrong WITH YOU."

Well, I watched him live as his career proceeded and I didn't find him entertaining or "great" at all. He had a style that worked for him. But I didn't fight it enjoyable at all.

But everyone rates him as one of the best ever, even though I couldn't disagree more. There's nothing I can do about it.

So it is what it is.

 

Wow, I find him slightly (maybe) rated higher than I do both overall and in hypothetical matches. But I think he was a superb boxer, even if I found his style...well not really pleasing. But the skill is there and real

 

I can't deny he decisioned the guys he decisioned, but that doesn't make him great (to me). It certainly does to others.

I just prefer great fighters to be entertaining and/or engage in exciting fights as well.

Clearly most fans don't ... or he wouldn't be regarded so highly by so many.

 

Just curious what are your thoughts on Pep, Locche, Floyd, Loma?

 

Tzyu

 

So just to summarize...……...you acknowledge he beat the guys he beat (the list is long, mind you), but the fact that he beat these guys isn't enough to prove he's great. He had to "suffer for his art" by engaging in exciting fights.

Eh, I understand. I disagree, but I understand.

I can't stand Whitaker on a personal level either from what I saw, but I do have to acknowledge he practically ran the tables on so many legitimately good/great fighters he's earned his due.

 

Wlad Klitschko. Mostly because he's a heavyweight, but additionally because he was unathletic, robotic and unimaginative, and when he DID have get imaginative, he fell hard. If he was forced to deviate from his jab-jab-right hand-clinch routine he wouldn't be able to hang.

He made the most of his size so kudos for that, but he reigned over paupers. Lucky to be in the right place at the right time.

 

Interesting.

My list clearly differs:
TOP 25 ATG HW LIST

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Mike Tyson
7. Lennox Lewis
8. George Foreman
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Joe Frazier

11. Wladimir Klitschko
12. Jack Dempsey
13. Sonny Liston
14. Sam Langford
15. Ezzard Charles
16. Harry Wills
17. Jim Jeffries
18. Floyd Patterson
19. Riddick Bowe
20. Vitaly Klitschko

21. Jersey Joe Walcott
22. Gene Tunney
23. John Sullivan
24. Ken Norton
25. James Corbett

 

Oh yeah I see a few problems