Boxers most consider great, that you don't

Why? I think Tyson as 5-10 is fairly realistic? I have him around 9 but not sure why this would be a reach?

 

I rank him in my top 10 lol. I think he shouldn't be above Lewis or Holyfield by any stretch of the imagination

There are a few other things I don't like about his list but it's still a fine list

 

1) He was the benchmark fighter of his generation. Most careers were made or broken based on one's performance against Mike.

2) His reign from 1986-1990 was pretty active and dominant and he cleaned out the division. Compared to Bowe, Holyfield or Lewis none of them never replicated anything close to Tyson's reign especially in an era of alpha titles.

Holyfield was an inconsistent champion; he's credited for always being a factor as opposed to being the dominant factor like Tyson before him. And yes Holyfield beat Tyson twice. But Bowe beat Holyfield twice as well and he's ranked well below Evander.

Bowe's resume has great signature wins, but outside of Holyfield he lacks depth.

Lewis's reign was from 1999-2003. Before that he was never really established as THE MAN in the division. Their resumes are comparable (Tyson and Lewis) but Lewis seems to get credit for dominating an era when he as mostly a perennial contender who rose to the occasion by outlasting his peers. People aggrandize his opponents mostly because he beat punchers as opposed to Tyson who beat alot of boxer/slickster types. His wins over Tyson and Holyfield are no better than Tyson's win over Holmes or Holyfield's win over Foreman based on the versions he fought.

Foreman has some nice signature wins but you'd be hard pressed to find 15 names on his resume compare with Tyson's 15 names despite having 76 wins. Foreman never cleaned out the division in either reign. He either lost title prematurely or decided to **** off after winning it from Moorer.

Dempsey was far too inactive as champion, has a few more blemishes on his record and drawing the color line disqualifies him in my book from the Top 10.

Frazier has the best signature win in history, but aside from Ali his resume falls short of Tyson's resume.

Wlad never fully unified and at no point in his career he ever undisputed. Not to mention his era was weak.

3) Youngest ever Heavyweight Champ.

4) The eye test, he's the only heavyweight Champion to this day that ranked #1 on the Ring Magazine's p4p ranking thrice in a row. Not an easy feat.

5-10 is fair Obviously I have him at 6 but below 10 is objectively wrong.

 

Mike Tyson:

1) Micheal Spinks (Undefeated Lineal Champion)
2) Tony Tucker (Undefeated IBF Champion)
3) Razor Ruddock (#2 Ranked Contender All 3 Bodies) X 2
4) Pinklon Thomas (Fmr WBC champ/#1 Rank WBC)
5) Larry Holmes (Fmr Lineal Champion)
6) Bonecrusher Smith (WBA Champion)
7) Frank Bruno (#2 Ranked All 3 Bodies/WBC Champ) X 2
8) Trevor Berbick (WBC Champion)
9) Tony Tubbs (#2 Ranked All 3 Bodies + Fmr WBA Champ)
10) Carl Williams (#1 Ranked IBF)
11) Andrew Golota (#9 Ranked Contender WBC)
12) Frans Botha (#1 Ranked IBF Contender/Fmr IBF Champ)
13) Tyrell Biggs (#1 Ranked Contender All 3 Bodies)
14) Bruce Seldon (WBA Champion)
15) Alex Stewart (#3 Ranked Contender All 3 Bodies)

 

Evander Holyfield

1. Mike Tyson 2X (WBA Champion/#1 ranked Contender WBA)
2. Riddick Bowe (#1 Ranked Conteder WBA + #3 Ranked Contender IBF/WBC)
3. Michael Moorer (IBF Champion)
4. Ray Mercer
5. George Foreman (#2 Ranked Contender WBA/IBF + #3 Ranked Contender WBC)
6. Larry Holmes (#6 Ranked Contender WBC)
7. Micheal Dokes
8. John Ruiz (#1 Ranked Contender WBA)
9. Hasim Rahman (Fmr Lineal Champion)
10. Alex Stewart 2X (#2 Ranked Contender WBA/?)
11. Buster Douglas (Undisputed Lineal Champion)
12. Vaughn Bean (#1 Ranked Contender IBF)
13. Adilson Rodrigues
14. Pinklon Thomas (Fmr. WBC Champion)
15. Bert Cooper (#12 Ranked Contender IBF)

 

Lennox Lewis

1. Vitali Klitschko (#1 Ranked Conteder WBA/WBC)
2. Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock (#1 Ranked Contender WBC)
3. Evander Holyfield (WBA/IBF Champion/Fmr Lineal Undisputed Champion)
4. Mike Tyson (#1 Ranked Contender WBC/Fmr Lineal Undisputed Champion)
5. Ray Mercer (Fmr WBO Champ)
6. Tommy Morrison (#2 Ranked Contender WBC/Fmr WBO Champ)
7. David Tua (#1 Ranked Contender WBC)
8. Andrew Golota (#1 Ranked Contender WBC)
9. Frans Botha (#9 Ranked Contender WBC/Fmr IBF Champ)
10. Frank Bruno (#5 Ranked Contender All 3 bodies)
11. Shannon Briggs (Lineal Title)
12. Micheal Grant (#2 Ranked Contender WBC/IBF)
13. Tony Tucker (#1 Ranked Contender/Fmr IBF Champ)
14. Hasim Rahman (Lineal Champion)
15. Oliver McCall (WBC Champion)

 

Sort of a reversal of Kurupt's thread from earlier. Fighters who you think were great where a lot of others, maybe even the majority, would say otherwise be it in ignorance or knowledge. Actually, we'll allow borderline greatness too, to broaden the field a bit.

It could be that your threshold for greatness is different to the majority. Maybe the fighter is obscure or undocumented by the standards of the casual but still reasonably informed spectator. Or maybe you hold their opposition in greater regard than most.

 

I don`t if GGG counts, and I mean in terms of being an all time great, I realy think he`s something special alongside Monzon and Hagler I also feel he has great skills but a lot of fans thinks he`s just a puncher, he`s got a great jab too and a great defense, a lot of people think he`s got no defense I`ve even heard fans say the same about JCC Sr and Duran!

 

Not sure they necessarily belong on any pound-for-pound lists, but Antonio Esparragoza was really good albeit for only a couple years, and Rafael Herrera. He's more forgotten than thought poorly of, I suppose.

 

I think he tends to get rated a little higher than he should. But I guess the question is about what he achieved v the way he achieved it. If you look at his career achievements then it's hard to argue against his place amongst the elite. But I absolutely agree about his duller-than-paint-drying fighting style.

 

Whitaker had a few boring showings, but he’s hardly Sammy Serrano or summat, he got involved in plenty of fights and let his hands go a lot, I really don’t get the perception that he was boring.

 

Some are calling out Whitker. If so, then De La Hoya even moreso, because Whitiker won their fight in every way a fighter can win, landing more punches and putting Oscar down, and was flat out screwed.

 

As I do here.

 

Ernesto Marcel (no.10 ranked featherweight in my rankings)

Ben Villaflor (borderline top 10 130lber IMO)

‘Little’ Jackie Sharkey (borderline top 20 bantamweight of all time IMO)

Tod Morgan (top 5 130lber of all time IMO)

Saensak Muangsurin (the George Foreman of the light welterweights)

Samart Payakaroon (weight making zapped his prime but he’s arguably the most talented fighter to ever don gloves IMO)

Tommy Ryan (arguably a top 10 fighter at both welter and middle yet rarely gets mentioned in top 50 all-time P4P kinda’ lists)

Jung Koo Chang (should get the kinda’ plaudits seemingly only reserved for Ricardo Lopez and Roman Gonzalez as midgets go)

Frankie Genaro (Pancho Villa always gets Genaro’s shine, yet Frankie was his daddy)

Mike O’Dowd (looks good on film, yes he lost to cheese champ Wilson but his middleweight resume is deep and highly impressive, won the series with Gibbons, always seen as a lesser fighter than him, I could easily see him 9 or 10 in all-time MW rankings)

Sandro Mazzinghi (legacy hurt by clearly being Benvenuti’s inferior, but arguably built a better resume than him at 154 and ‘beat the man who beat the man’ Ki Soo Kim)

Freddie Little (excellent light middle who should arguably have wins over Mazzinghi AND Kim on his resume)

Chucho Castillo (supremely talented bantam, borderline top 10)

Vicente Saldivar (the kudos he should get is apparently reserved only for Salvador Sanchez, yet I have Saldivar as the 2nd or 3rd greatest Mexican of all-time and the 2nd or 3rd greatest featherweight of all time)

Mike Tyson (apparently he wasn’t very good, feasted on a poor crop of heavyweights/talented bunch that were fat druggies, I find his achievements, longevity, number of contenders/titlists beat far outrank say Dempsey and Marciano, yet having Tyson in a top 10 heavyweight list is apparently blasphemous nowadays. Underrated IMO, because us snobs will over compensate to account for the huge amount of casuals that perceive Tyson to be the G.O.A.T)

I will probably think of others later.

 

Good shouts, Sal. Esparragoza was indeed very good for a short time. Rafa was great to me. Same as Chucho; I think they were better fighters than the Mexi-trio, if I'm honest.