Wilder #1 Heavyweight IF beats Fury

2 questions...

1. Who would you predict to win the upcoming bout in December between Fury and Wilder?

2. Do you find it easier to make that prediction above compared to trying to predict the winner of a Joshua vs Wilder match up?

 

I’m not talking about if I rate him or not, I’m talking about where I rank them. And where I rank them is based on circumstance and resume

 

The ghost of a bum will make nobody #1 anything, unless it's #1 cherry picker. Joshua's resume is so much more impressive than Wilder's and the addition of Fury to Wilder's ledger does almost nothing.

 

I’d have to disagree with you on it being a better win than Any of Joshua’s. I believe Fury is a top fighter, but what I believe needs to be backed up with consistency at the top of the game.

Let me ask you a couple of questions:

Was Fury’s win a flash in the pan, or is he truly a top heavyweight?

Is Fury back to his best, or is he way off the pace?

We simply do not know the answer to these questions, therefore how can a win over him rank above that of Joshua’s win over Wlad.

As I said, I like Fury, but should Wilder win, and Fury disappears off the scene, what will history say about him? I know he’s more than a flash in the pan, but he needs to prove it.

I’ve already said that it’s a lose/lose for Wilder, because there are so many question marks over Fury, and those questions will be answered negatively should Fury lose.

 

This is a good argument but I ultimately disagee with your conclusion and some of your premises. Comparing a (hugely hypothetical) Wilder win to the actual AJ win over Wlad, we can basically do it in two different ways.

A: "Primeness" or fitness for fight.
For Fury being more prime/fit than Wlad
1. 11 years younger. I.E. usually near the prime age of a HW at 30.
2. Two tune up fights in the same year, while Wlad had not fought in more than a year and a half.
3. Fury has yet to lose. Wlad had lost his last fight, was two years removed from his last win, where he still struggled.
4. Fury is at or near his prime weight
Reasons Wlad was more prime or fit
1. He looked in top condition (but always does). Fury will look less cut (but always does). A nonstarter of an issue imo
2. Fury abused his body BADLY during his 2.5 years of exile. A very legit issue. Wlad never abused his body.
3.???? Just can't think of any.

While issue 2 is a very legit question, on the balance, weighed against 3 reasons in Furys favor, one or two of them probably equally impactful as the sole reason to question Fury more than Wlad. On the balance, Furys "Primeness" is much less debatable on a solely logical perspective.

B item 2: Who is the better win outside of prime question(at least as much as possible)?
Reasons Wlad.
1. Indisputably achieved much more than Fury in his career.
2. As you note, Fury lack of other achievements allow questioning whether it was a fluke win
Reasons Fury should or can be more valued
1. Rest of his career to establish himself, ie of if he drops away, it will mean less, if he owns most other fighters, it means more. So, the jury is still out to some extent.
2. He is clearly no Buster Douglas or Spinks. He hadn't lost before, and displayed a unique kind of talent. Moreover, he had a decent if not sterling resume heading into the Wlad fight. The win over Wlad made him "the man". Even if that waned by inactivity etc, his latent relevance is still high. How can a Wlad already beaten by Fury be a bigger win than Fury?

Overall, the primeness advantage of Fury would at least equal out the greater ATGness of Wlad.

To me, I'd probably make the Fury win a slightly more impactful win than AJs Wlad win. It's certainly debatable, but it's just kind of silly to rank one substantially higher than the other.

 

After Wilder bounces Fury's head off the canvas, he'll move on to take care of AJ and break his skull wide open.

Then no one will be able to say anything about his record, which will be legendary.

 

To many ifs and buts. Facts are that Fury had ONE great win in a dull boring as fudge fight. In any of he previous fights he never looked like a world beater, lets not forget he won all the Belts from Wlad not multiple world champions. Apart from Wlad tell me a top 5 HW that Fury beat?? You can't because there are not any.
Wilder is very much the same in the way of WHO has he fought?? people pick at an Old Wlad but lets not forget he was Lineal HW world champion unlike Ortiz who is just as Old and Never World Champion.
Nationalism obviously gets in the way of this argument, but as I am British I am not showing Nationalism as I think AJ is better than Fury resume wise and going on current form Fury would not last 12 rounds and would not KO AJ

 

Answer 1. 60/40 type of fight for me but I’m leaning towards a TKO for Wilder. There’s still a solid 40% chance in my opinion that the more versatile Fury pulls off a hard fought SD.

Answer 2. AJ’s got more weapons and not necessarily more tools when compared to Fury. I can see AJ getting caught with bigger shots versus Wilder but he has quite an equalizer himself with just enough gas in the tank to finish what Ortiz couldn’t. I firmly believe the Fury vs Wilder fight has the better potential for multiple endings while AJ vs Wilder seems a bit more black and white and it’s doubtful that makes it to the cards.

 

I don’t feel Fury’s win versus Wlad was a coincidence. Styles make fights and Tyson is a large mobile boxer who was taken lightly by Wlad and his team.

Fury is relatively young especially for the HW division. He might be slightly off pace and not fully primed yet but make no mistake he’s coming into this fight well prepped and focused on leaving with some leather and glossy metal hanging on his shoulder.

My thoughts regarding a Fury win surpassing anything on AJ’s resume are slightly subjective, I won’t deny that. I’m putting heavy emphasis on his win versus Wlad, he’s media power, awkward style, imposing size and current position in boxing’s totoem pole ecosystem. All those factors beat out AJs biggest win in my book which is Wlad.

 

At this stage, I find the Wilder vs Fury fight easier to predict. I'm going with Wilder to win simply based on the rather lacklustre performances by Fury in his last two fights. Fury IMO hasn't looked that difficult to tag since his return and thats something he boasts as his point of difference. Ortiz reinforced that a good technical boxer can trouble Wilder but in his lost, he also highlighted the need to survive 12 rounds against Wilder. Fury looks a lot bigger now than the fleet footed champion that fought Wlad.

I find it more difficult to predict the Wilder vs Joshua fight compared to the Wilder Fury fight and that adds to the intrigue of the Wilder/Joshua fight. Joshua has struggled a bit but has looked good overall against decent names. Wilder only looked good in 2-3 rounds against Ortiz. If Wilder beats Fury, he can claim to be number one but he can't claim to be undisputed especially with one belt.

I guess the point Im getting away from is that - theres a lot of doubt around Tysons form going into this fight, whereas there is no doubt about the form that Wilder and Joshua are in, thus making their fight more anticpated.

 

All valid and feasible thoughts and outcomes sir. I think there’s no doubt the AJ vs Wilder fighter should be the naturally more anticipatied fight. Fury is always going to be the unpredictable variable in any HW equation involving these three.

 

If he wins he is number 2 and if he loses he is number 3. The winner won't displace Joshua as number 1 just like that. Silly suggestion

 

Again, a Brit casual throwing personal insults at me because he has no ability to defend the shameless ducking and paper record of AJ. Here are all the actual FACTS again as you clearly missed them...

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More personal attacks from another AJ/Mis-Matchroom fan. You can't defend your heroes so you have to shoot the messenger instead. It's not my fault AJ is the #3 in the division with no marquee wins.

 

I do not "drool" so no bucket would be required. Having the common sense to not listen to proven liars like Eddie Sperm does not make me unable to control my own jaw/saliva expulsion. The fact another one of you Brit casuals has to revert to personal insults says it all really. Aj and his "team" really must have embarrassed you all terribly.