My attempt at a top 50 heavyweights and some honorable mentions.

It is really simpler than all of that. No need to surrender a title...he just didn't fight the best of his day, and like Dempsey, his reign suffers.

Also, he did pull out of a fight with Langford, and could have fought anyone he wanted when he was on the run and fighting in Paris and Buena Aires. He fought a black man in Paris, just not a good one.

So Johnson gets points docked, period.

Though I respect McVey attempting to set the record straight. A much welcomed contribution.

 

Thanks.

I admitted Wlad Klit could be lower, but I keep my list as is. Wlad UNIFIED belts, Holmes contributed to FRAGMENTATION by openly ducking fighters and accepting a belt from the gutter, giving the IBF instant credibility. Just as Dempsey did not fight Wills and Johnson did not fight Langford, Holmes OPENLY ducked Page and Thomas, bragged about it, and left boxing worse off, with another shitbab ABC organization in play. I don't forgive him for it.

Also, when you say that everyone else has him higher, I am not trying to pull old-guy wisdom here or anything, but Holmes was openly attacked IN HIS TIME for his antics, and his reputation has risen a lot from young guys remembering him only from the 90's and seeing him on paper. If you had asked boxing writers about him in 1985, the consensus would be a lot lower.

Finally, his few good fights were controversial. So I stick by this one. 16 is good for him.

We addressed Joshua on another post. He can and will finish higher, but the comp is not there yet. Fury gets the credit for dethroning Wlad...Joshua got him post 40 a year and a half later. The rest of his resume are guys that aren't that good.

I have faith but he is not there yet.

 

I thank you for that...didn't know... but Charles, Walcott and Savold are pretty good wins.

 

Sorry I missed you. Baby was crying and then I had to take momma out.

I have given my rational on Holmes several times now on this thread, so let me just state the points and you can go back and read the more extensive explanations...openly ducked fighters and bragged...contributed to fragmenting titles, rather than unifying, by giving the IBF credibility...dearth of good fighters on his record...best fights were controversial and close...not well regarded in his own time, but instead, his reputation was revised in the 90's.

As for Wills, my primary criteria is who they beat. Wills beat Firpo, Langford, Norfolk, Denver Ed Martin, Gunboat Smith, Fulton, Jeanette, McVea, Jeff Clark, and Fat Willie Meehan. Larry Holmes should be proud to have this kind of record, and so would Jack Dempsey.

Frazier has a very pithy claim to fame: he won the fight of the century. Holmes does not have five fights added up that equal this feat.

Thanks, and as always, give me your top 30-50. No need for long explanations for all of them, maybe just the ones you mentioned.

 

Once again, my key factor is who they beat, with is the most objective of all. Tua beat Moorer, Ruiz, Rahmen, and Maskaev, all pretty good champs.

Rahmen beat Lewis, an ATG
Moorer beat Holyfield, an ATG
Ruiz beat Holyfield, an ATG, and a host of others
Maskaev beat Rahmen

and Tua beat them all. His records shits all over a lot of ABC titlists, and even a few undisputeds.

But hey, thanks for the contribution. What is YOUR top 50? Please post them up.

POST SCRIPT:
As for the "old-timer black fighter mania," a lot of good old black fighters were denied opportunities, and no boxing fan disputes as much. I just think it is nice to try to remember them and include them. History can do them right, even if they were denied in their time. A guy like Jim Bivins or Larry Gains has a stellar record.

A bit funny because I have been accused or racism for my support of Marciano, Schmeling, Fury, the Klits, and Johanson. I calls them like I sees them.

 

I watched the fight live and could not believe what I was seeing. Neither could the color team. He was up at five, clearly wobbled but ready to go. The color team was shocked and so was I. I will never give Ollie full credit for this.

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