Where do you rank Andre Ward as an ATG?

At supermiddleweight hes in the top three with Calzaghe and Roy. At 175 hes top 15, at the very best.

 

I don't. As much as I like Ward he didn't fight long enough or beat enough top competition to be an ATG. Besides Froch 168 was a weak division. 175 was a good division, but Ward didn't finish the job. If Ward would've went on to beat Stevenson after his two fights with Kovalev and reigned as Undisputed Champ for a few years he'd definitely be ATG worthy, but he didn't do it.

Ward's Best Wins:
Froch: was an excellent win
Kovalev: The two Kovalev fights were very good wins, but even going into the fight I always thought that Kovalev would lose to an opponent that went to his body and neutralized his right and unfortunately I was right.

Arthur Abraham, Bika, Miranda, and Berrera were good wins, but not much else.

I don't give Ward credit for the Chad Dawson fight.

 

Right now I don’t. I try to let a fighter be retired for 5 yrs or so before I feel I can fairly evaluate his era or his place within that era before I can comfortably contrast it to other fighters and eras.

Right now very highly at SMW, overall I don’t have a feel for just yet.

 

Not sure exactly.

Assuming he doesn't come back. He was really good, but while he has some really good wins, his short career leaves more question marks. Obviously he's not at the very top, or even up there with Ray Leonard or Mayweather Jr. IMO.

Maybe a similar level to Kid McCoy

 

You left off Kessler, a big win.

 

He’s absolutely an ATG. Number 2 at 168. Showed he could deal with adversity against Kovalev. He beat the best available in two divisions that had talent. And took a gold medal. He’s probably third behind Floyd and Pac for 2005-2015 guys.

 

He's probably top-3 at 168. Not sure where I'd place him at 175, but I suspect, if anything, he's a vague outlier, due to very little to go on there. Pound-for-Pound, I'd need to consider that one for a while longer. I doubt he makes it on my list, to be honest.

 

Ward fouled too much in that fight. Ward most likely would've won the fight without all of the headbutts, but instead he resorted to using headbutts. If that fight was anywhere other than Oakland Ward would've at least lost a point. Ward blatantly headbutted Kessler right in front of the ref numerous times. I can't give Ward much credit for the Kessler win just like I don't give Bradley credit for headbutting his way to victory against Alexander or Horn fouling his way to a decision over PAC.

 

Alright dude

 

Probably doesn't break my top 100 p4p

 

Similar to Vitali Klitschko. He is one, but the big, impressive wins just aren't there.

Classic example of how screwjobs hurt the sport, and even the beneficiaries. Had he taken his loss against Kovalev, and then avenged it, they would have had a rubber match and both would be remember as first tier ATGs regardless of what happens next due to the "Schmeling effect." Instead, Kovalev has been badly diminished both from the two fights and his subsequent loss, and Ward has what is really a great win diminished to a footnote on boxrec.

Sad, but that is the reality.

 

I had Ward winning the first fight. Plenty of others did too. His resume is way in front of Vitali's and I like Vitali more than Ward.

 

You are simply incorrect. There is no case to be made for Ward winning. None.

Kovalev threw more, he landed more, he landed more power punches. He knocked Ward down. He landed more in at least six rounds, so even being generous the knockdown would have kept it from being a draw. Given these FACTS, there is no case to be made for Ward in the more subjective categories of defense and effective aggression. None.

This is how fights are scored, and Ward lost in every way a fighter can lose.

 

Outside the top 100.