Joe Frazier ,Wins The F.O.T.C, how did it decline from there ?

1 Well for one you COULD argue he was rolling slightly past peak by the time Ali fight was made.
2 Joe's style was not the type of style that you were going to get a long career out of staying at the top.
3 Joe had notoriously high blood pressure he carried with him the rest of his life.
4 After claiming arguably the greatest victory in boxing all the while pushing your body to unbelievable conditioning levels then fighting a brutal fight aged him.
5 His desire and focus never seemed the same which showed in his physical appearance.

Just some of my opinions and or observations

 

1. Age. That style doesn't age well.
2. Motivation, with his style Frazier needs to be in shape to be great and his next two opponents didn't exactly scare him into training hard.
3. Foreman. He was never going to beat him anyway but that pounding probably hurt his confidence badly and further pushed him down the decline.
4. Ali having adjusted to his age and now using veteran tactics like grabbing and holding made Frazier look really bad in the rematch.



I also think Ali in the FOTC was a guy who was trying to fight the way he did when he was younger when he was no longer the same guy.
I think Ali got a little better in 72,73 because he started holding and using Other veteran tactics that he now needed because his legs and reflexes weren't the same

 

I also believe that Muhammad's legs in 1972-74 were better than in 1971. Although,obviously,not as good as 1967.

 

FOTC took more out of the victor than the losing combatant.

 

Frazier suffered a terrible beating.

Sometimes you take a beating and make a full recovery. Sometimes you take a beating and you don't make a full recovery and you're not quite the same anymore.

Frazier took a beating and he just wasn't the same anymore.

When they say a fighter left a piece of himself in the ring, it means he isn't the same anymore after a fight.

Frazier left a piece of himself in the ring in the first Ali fight and in the last fight with Ali.

He took beatings he couldn't fully recover from.

 

I don't think they were better, rather, I think he adjusted a lot more. He took ownership of his age and declining physicality and fought more effectively as a result.

 

I think that is partially true; coming into the fight Frazier was the favorite to beat Foreman. Joe didn't look as sharp and likely never took the fight as serious as he should have in foresight. That's not to say Foreman doesn't win all the same against a better prepared Frazier, but even in a loss you can gauge one's ability and preparation for a fight.

Ultimately, when you examine his career, he scaled the mountain at a steep price.

 

Frazier took a heck of a beating in the FOTC, it was bound to take something out of him. Plus as someone wrote earlier his style, (Like Tyson) was a young fighters style. Constant head movement and aggression . As he got older the punches he was slipping started to land more frequently. Plus the Foreman factor. Frazier was almost tailor made for Foreman. Foreman's brute strength being able to push Frazier off balance and nail him before he was able to reset, it was a recipe for disaster (And it was,twice. I see Foreman doing almost the same to Tyson in a hypothetical fight between those two. ) Plus the focus factor, beating the greatest Heavyweight, in the greatest fight, at the greatest arena, in front of the greatest crowd. I don't think he could ever get that tuned in again. Don't believe it was humanly possible.

 

It was Frazier’s top of the mountain fight. It’s like all fighters have one. The first Ali fight was his.

He won it and he never won an important fight again ...because he had his top of the mountain fight.

Frazier took a terrible beating winning. And he paid a price for that.

It was well documented at the time that Frazier might never be able to fight again.

There's an account of it here:


https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=nYxLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DiQNAAAAIBAJ&pg=7142,3126706


“Rumours had it Frazier would never fight again after the beating he took winning the fight”


“Frazier said he hoped the exhibition settled the question of his health”

 

Great win for Joe, and he won, but Ali beat the prime out of Joe that night

 

Fighting two nobodies over the next 2 years whilst ignoring his ranked challengers ,touring with a rock group. At the end of the day it was his choice ,he basically pissed on his legacy,no ones fault but his own.

 

It wouldn’t have made a difference.

If Frazier already had his “prime knocked out of him” by Ali (to the extent he might have needed hand picked fights to win again anyway) the fighting of nobodies and club singing would not have hurt anything he did before.

Frazier’s legacy had already been realised with the Ali win. He had just about cleaned out the entire 1960s scene. Quarry, Ellis, Bonavena, Machen, Jones, Chuvalo And then Muhammad Ali. Who else was out there by 1971?

Even though He probably should have retired undefeated at that point nothing that came after did not really tarnish anything that went on before. Frazier had still done all of that. And he did it at the right time. It wasn’t like Joe Calzaghe beating Jones and Hopkins after it mattered. Frazier beat Ellis when it mattered. Quarry when it mattered. Ali when it mattered.

to become a great fighter that was what was required. Joe did that.

 

Superbly put.

 

I agree...and if anything, it's a shame that he didn't just retire...quit...just walked away from it all. An unthinkable thought? Tunney and Marciano did it....as did many other non-heavyweights.