Was Anthony Joshua's lack of an above average jab, exposed against Povetkin & Joseph Parker?

Parker was getting out-jabbed by Andy Ruiz Jr at times. What the hell are you on about? And Parker the 'best jabber'? Lol. You having a laugh, or you genuinely being serious, because I can't tell which one it is? Lol. The word 'best' and Parker never goes hand to hand. Parker is at most, slightly above average in any department of boxing.

Andy Ruiz Jr had already beat the crap out of Parker before Joshua did, and got robbed because of the home-cooked New Zealand decision. Had Joshua fought Parker in New Zealand like Ruiz did, Joshua would've also lost. Joshua should thank his lucky stars he managed to fight in his home country instead. Since Joshua wasn't any more impressive against Parker, than Andy Ruiz Jr was.

So BARELY out-jabbing a novice and an average boxer at most in Joseph Parker, means nothing. You seriously mean to say anybody should be impressed by that feat? Since Joshua didn't even THOROUGHLY out-jab Parker in the first place. Parker barely got hit by clean jabs. Otherwise, he would've been marked up more. Parker his own jabs in return many times too.

Povetkin said he is stronger, therefore he definitely is? What the hell do you expect him to say? That he is weaker now than before? Of course he isn't going to say that. Common sense would dictate this. He was trying to prepare himself mentally and convince everyone that he was stronger for Joshua than before. Only an idiot would think he would say otherwise and that his statements should be accepted at face value.

He can claim what he wants. But no version of Povetkin would have the strength to deal with Wladimir Klitschko. That has already been exposed! You don't RANDOMLY become MUCH stronger in your late 30's, than how you were in your early 30's.

How about we look at actual evidence to see how strong Povetkin has been lately? He's went 24 rounds, back to back against 2 journeymen in Christian Hammer and Andriy Rudenko, without being able to score a single knockdown. Which is not a sign of him being stronger than before. Especially when you fail to even drop someone like Christian Hammer who evidently has suspect durability, since he was cleanly KO'ed by Mariusz Wach and dropped multiple times by Tyson Fury already.

Then he fights David Price. needs 5 rounds to finally KO a guy who was already more brutally KO'ed in just 2 rounds (3 rounds quicker) by Turkish journeyman Erken Teper. Not only that, Teper doesn't suffer a knockdown like Povetkin did either, when he knocks out Price.

Leading up to the Anthony Joshua fight, Povetkin was already softened up by Wladimir Klitschko after all the punches knockdowns and damage he suffered. And further softened up by David Price after the huge left hook that had Povetkin at a stunned state.

Joshua faced the WORST version of Povetkin at his worst state, in terms of durability and stamina. Yet, still needed 7 rounds to drop Povetkin when Price had done it far quicker and with only one punch.

It's not HISTORICALLY common to see any heavyweight, much less a small heavyweight like Povetkin who uses a young man's style that is very taxing on the body, doing well or being successful at the elite level. In fact, this applies to any boxer in general. Go ahead and find me examples of small heavyweights like Povetkin beating elite opponents at age 39 with a similar age and size disadvantage. NEVER HAPPENED!

Unless you're telling me Povetkin is greater than all past heavyweights. LOL.

And if tapping body jabs is the best he can do on a 39 year old guy who has no legs, is short, has no stamina, has no durability and is a pensioner in Povetkin, then Joshua's jab is evidently very lacking.

 

I didn't create this thread to 'belittle' Joshua. I created this thread, to give constructive criticism on Joshua where the criticism is warranted. No boxer is exempt from criticism. And you seem to have a problem with that.

It's you who started to REALLY 'belittle' someone, who happened to be Wladimir Klitschko, in response to my mere objective criticism of Joshua's boxing abilities. Seemingly because, you can't handle Joshua being criticized in any way. Which really speaks volumes about your personal mental state and insecurities.

Yet, in doing so, you're the one who is ACTUALLY 'belittling' Anthony Joshua indirectly, perhaps unknowingly, because you probably aren't very bright or intelligent to notice or figure this out. Since Wladimir Klitschko is literally Anthony Joshua's best opponent till date, and any attempts you make at belittling Wladimir Klitschko, happens to be an indirect belittling of Anthony Joshua, due to his MAJOR struggles at beating a 41 year old Wladimir Klitschko.

Yeah no, I don't need luck. It's you who needs help with your existence!

 

Where did you pull those numbers from? And if you're using compubox stats, then don't bother. Compubox stats are unreliable and inaccurate. Therefore, they prove nothing.

Compubox counts feints as missed punches. Ergo, the 'missed punch' stat is totally irrelevant!

Wladimir Klitschko literally dropped Povetkin to the canvas with a glancing jab / left hook in the 2nd round. 5 rounds quicker than Joshua needed to drop Povetkin with entire combinations. And this was a past-prime version of Wlad that did this to a previously never dropped version of Povetkin who was also in his prime. Yet, Joshua needed more rounds, more punches and more time to drop a shot version of Povetkin who was more shopworn, had taken more damage and was more faded.

Wladimir Klitschko's jab was CLEARLY more effective. Not to mention, that was also a Wladimir Klitschko who was not only past-prime, but also disinterested and merciful that night. Yet, he TOTALLY ragdolled Povetkin like an absolute feather. If he really showed no mercy, Povetkin would've been KO'ed in the 3rd round. That's far better than taking 7 rounds to TKO a shot and a far more faded version of Povetkin.

Joshua's jab didn't break Povetkin down. Povetkin's age is what caused his body to break down. The dude was broken down and gassing against David Price, who didn't have to land all those measly jabs on Povetkin for Povetkin to be that tired in that fight. And he was lucky to have scored the KO in the 5th round. Otherwise, against any better opponent with more durability, Povetkin would've been stopped.

Joshua's jab isn't what contributed to the stoppage. And Joshua's jab didn't break Povetkin down, anymore than Wladimir Klitschko's jab did. It's the referee that contributed to the stoppage.

Anthony Joshua didn't do anything that Wladimir Klitschko didn't also do, as far as breaking Povetkin down is concerned. Anthony Joshua dropped Povetkin twice in the 7th round? Wladimir Klitschko dropped Povetkin THRICE in the 7th round and had him down 4 times in total by that point in the fight. Difference is, the British referee in the AJ-Povetkin fight was more protective and stopped the fight after the 2nd knockdown, whilst the referee in the Wladimir Klitschko - Alexander Povetkin wasn't as protective and gave Povetkin the chance to prove if he can continue. That's why there wasn't a stoppage in that fight.

Coming in low with one's head isn't illegal. But charging in head first into an opponent's body is illegal. Povetkin didn't charge in with his head against Joshua, the way he did against Wladimir Klitschko.

Ruslan Chagaev stepped into range legally, without leaving his head out there or charging in head first, to Wladimir Klitschko's body. And as a result, Wladimir Klitschko wasn't forced to hold excessively in that fight.

Povetkin was at fault against Wladimir Klitschko, because you're not supposed to lean forward with your head, where your head is positioned ahead of your legs / entire body and as a result, your hips aren't under your core. This leaves you vulnerable to being off balanced and this is exactly what happened to Povetkin against Wlad. Charging your head first into an opponent's body, warrants your head being controlled, for safety reasons.

Joshua beating 39 year old, shot and the most faded version of Povetkin doesn't make Joshua better than Wladimir Klitschko. Even if he did somehow perform better against Povetkin (he didn't). Since 39 year old Povetkin is easier to beat / stop, than the younger prime one.

Joshua didn't control range against Povetkin. Povetkin controlled the range and outworked Joshua, exposing Joshua massively in the early rounds. Povetkin lost, only after he started gassing from being an old grandpa. Overall, Povetkin wasn't charging in with his head against Joshua, the way he was against Wladimir Klitschko.

 

No, it doesn't! The footage proves Povetkin leaning forward with his head, charging in, risking head collisions. Wladimir Klitschko simply countered that by controlling Povetkin's head, which happened to be dangerously near Wladimir's body as he charged in with it.

So the way Povetkin came forward to close the distance, is the ONLY possible way to close distance against a taller opponent? Is that what you're really trying to state? If you are, then it proves you haven't watched much boxing, or simply not knowledgeable enough to know what you're seeing, or you are not very intelligent, or lying, or it's a combination of those things.

Whatever the case maybe. The answer is no, Povetkin's way of closing distance isn't the only way. You should watch some skilled short boxers who are experts at closing distance, such as Vasyl Lomachenko when he fought Sam Maxwell:

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You'd notice Lomachenko wasn't leaning in with his head positioned ahead of his body as Povetkin was against Wladimir Klitschko. Lomachenko was stepping into range with his entire body inline. And nearly always had his hips under him. Therefore, he couldn't be clinched or leaned on, even if Maxwell wanted to. And Maxwell was attempting to hold Lomachenko in that fight as often as he could.

Meanwhile, Povetkin didn't have his hips under him and due to that, along with placing his head in front of his body when stepping in, he was off balanced, and was begging to be controlled / held.

You've lost the right to lecture me about the moralities of 'lying', when you committed at least 2 blatant lies in one of your earlier posts, trying to pass of Evander Holyfield's age as 39 when he fought Lennox Lewis in the rematch and Lennox Lewis's age as 39, when he fought Vitali Klitschko. When in REALITY, they both were 37. So you're better advised to follow what you preach, rather than lecturing others about something you yourself don't follow.

No, Povetkin did not step into range the same way he did against Wladimir Klitschko. Povetkin was controlling distance much better against Joshua. In the early rounds (when he still had energy and durability), he was overwhelming Joshua with feints from the edge of range, making him hesitant and forcing Joshua to second guess himself, offensively and defensively. Povetkin was staying out of range more against Joshua, and wasn't coming in as often and as recklessly against Wladimir Klitschko. Povetkin kept distance and was feinting Joshua, whilst Joshua was the one who was scared to close the distance and to attack Povetkin, prompting him to back off.

Furthermore, Povetkin was fghting Joshua at mid-range. Whereas Povetkin was attempting to fight Wladimir Klitschko on the inside and his approach was all wrong. Since he wasn't controlling distance and was recklessly charging in with his head, forcing it to be controlled by Wladimir.

Povetkin's tactics were better against Joshua, than against Wladimir Klitschko!

Nonsense about 'grabbing from mid-rage'. You don't / can't grab an opponent successfully from mid-range, if they have their hips under them and don't have their head positioned ahead of their body. Go ahead, try grabbing an opponent who has a tight guard with their arms tightly tucked in, close to their body and with their head inline with their body. You won't be able to push their head down, or lean on them, or even prevent them from punching. It'd be practically impossible. As I stated already, you should watch more skilled short boxers like Lomachenko in terms of how they close distance and how they prevent getting clinched, instead of complaining effeminately.

If PRIME Wladimir Klitschko fought the Povetkin that fought Joshua, he'd be blasted out inside 3 rounds. Especially if he isn't holding back. Wlad wouldn't even need to clinch that version of Povetkin that much.

Everyone clinches. Wladimir Klitschko is not an exception! Joshua also clinches. Wladimir Klitschko didn't clinch David Haye, anymore than Joshua clinched Carlos Takam.

If you want to accuse Wladimir Klitschko for cheating, then don't single him out. Anthony Joshua also cheats. He uses illegal holding and hitting tactics. Same thing with Tyson Fury. Deontay Wilder throws windmill rabbit punches which are also against the rules.

And even if you go back to past heavyweight champs / greats, then they also cheat. Lennox Lewis was as much of a chronic clincher. But at the same time, he also used to hold and hit. Much like Anthony Joshua.

Evander Holyfield was a chronic head-butter. Which is against the rules.

Mike Tyson was known to use his elbows regularly to inflict damage on his opponents. And bit ears off his opponents too. Those are also illegal.

Muhammad Ali was known to be an excessive clincher as well. He made a reputation out of holding his opponent's heads. Especially against Joe Frazier.

I can go on and on but you get the point! If you don't like fouling, then criticize the heavyweight division as a whole, in order to remainobjective, rather than singling out Wladimir Klitschko. Otherwise, you get exposed of being a self-obsessed individual who's problem lies beyond Wladimir Klitschko's so called 'illegal tactics'.

Whether Chagaev fought on short notice or not, is beside the point and irrelevant. Point is, Chagaev didn't lunge in with his head the way povetkin did against Wladimir Klitschko. Therefore, Wladimir didn't need to clinch him (couldn't clinch him even if he wanted to). Chagaev had his head inline with his body and had his hips under him whilst maintaining a tight guard. This neutralized clinch attempts from Wladimir.

Alexander Povetkin is NOT Wladimir Klitschko's best opponent. An argument can be made Kubrat Pulev > Alexander Povetkin.

And so what if Joshua beat Povetkin the way you described he would? Am I supposed to be impressed by that? Why? Joshua beating Povetkin, proves nothing in terms of his superiority over Wladimir Klitschko. No more than Danny Williams beating Mike Tyson proves his superiority over Lennox Lewis. Since Danny Williams blasted Tyson out of the ring in half the time, without using any of the dirty tactics or excessive clinching that Lennox Lewis used. So what are you going to say about that? Does that prove Danny Williams is superior to Lennox Lewis? What exactly is your point?

I went on to degrade Povetkin because he is 39 years old, and is a shot fighter. No different than Mike Tyson was against Danny Williams or Evander Holyfield against John Ruiz / Larry Donald.

Joshua beating Povetkin at this stage in his career, means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! He was supposed to beat him. Question was, did he beat him as impressively as he should have? The answer is NO!

A 39 year old Povetkin, has no relevance to a prime Povetkin! And Anthony Joshua beating a 39 year old Povetkin, has no correlation to the prime Alexander Povetkin that fought Wladimir Klitschko.

 

Hey moron! You appeared to claim the way Povetkin closed the distance against Wladimir Klitschko, is somehow the ONLY way a shorter boxer with a shorter reach can close the distance against a taller opponent. And I asked you to confirm if such was the case. Since if it was, you were wrong. And I used Lomachenko's performance against Samuel Maxwell to prove this. Learn to stay on topic and understand the relevance of the points being made, rather than calling other people 'morons' and instead of exposing yourself to be the only real 'moron' in this discussion.

My point about Lomachenko had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with your request of me finding footage of Povetkin using illegal tactics. It was a totally different response to a totally different point you made.

As for the evidence of Povetkin fouling, it's right in front of you! In the very video you yourself posted. You can choose to ignore it or accept it, that's your call. But when someone has their head positioned ahead of their feet, then it can be considered a headbutt / bull rushing attempt. Which is illegal!

If someone has their elbows pointing forward towards the direction of their opponent in a boxing bout and if their elbow is literally positioned ahead of their entire body, then that someone can be deemed as attempting an illegal elbow strike.

Or if someone has their knee positioned ahead of their entire body and their knee is pointing towards their opponent, then once again, they can also be deemed to be attempting an illegal knee strike.

So why should it be any different with the head? What excuse / reason does Povetkin have for positioning his head, ahead of his feet and his entire body, if not for him attempting to illegally bull-rush Wladimir Klitshcko? Exactly! There is none!

For every example you can find of Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis not fouling, I can also find examples of them fouling.

Lennox Lewis fouled the hell out of a washed up Mike Tyson by EXCESSIVELY clinching. What excuse do you have of that foul fest performance by Lennox Lewis?

Larry Holmes has made a career out of thumbing his opponent's faces with the open part of his gloves. Which is ILLEGAL! What excuses do you have of that?

Which gets me back to my ORIGINAL point, EVERY past heavyweight great champion has fouled and used illegal dirty tactics. I challenge you to find me one that was 100% clean! Hint: You won't be able to!

So you're hypocrisy is being SEVERELY exposed. You aren't willing to be equally critical of other heavyweights who have fouled, as you are of Wladimir Klitschko. Simply because, your problems with Wladimir Klitschko goes beyond the sport of boxing and fouling. You seem to have a mental disorder that needs to be checked up.

Joshua beat a shot, 39 year old Povetkin. Proves nothing! Danny Williams cleanly 10 count KO'ed Mike Tyson, whilst Lennox Lewis needed a clinch fest and required double the time to KO Tyson. What does that prove?

Dereck Chisora EASILY beat Carlos Takam and stopped him conclusively. Joshua needed a nonsensical premature stoppage. So what does that prove? Chisora > Joshua? And Chisora didn't need to hold and hit / rabbit punch Takam the way Joshua needed to. Yet, Chisora still conclusively stopped Takam. Joshua couldn't.

Missed punch stats are as relevant in boxing, as punches thrown. Totally irrelevant! Compubox counts feints as missed punches. And the number of punches you miss / throw, is not even that relevant as a scoring criteria. The number of DAMAGING punches you land, are what's relevant.

I challenge you to find me a single instance where I wrote (or even implied): "Povetkin should have been disqualified against Wladimir Klitschko"!

Otherwise, continue exposing yourself as the liar that you are.

Already did this once, when you lied about Holyfield's and Lennox Lewis's ages. But you're evidently a chronic liar that calls others liars to cover yourself. Pathetic!

Povetkin was dropped and heavily stunned by a glancing left hook of Wladimir Klitschko that barely landed clean with full power. When you're getting dropped by such a punch, then you don't stand much of a chance against Wladimir Klitschko.

Povetkin doesn't hit ANYWHERE NEAR AS HARD as Wladimir Klitschko. His lack of punching power would always be exposed and be a factor in his chances at beating Wladimir Klitschko.

A Wladimir Klitschko that was barely even fully warmed up by round 2, dropped Povetkin with a semi-powered and semi-clean glancing left hook. If Wladimir Klitschko really wanted to, he could've just put Povetkin away there. Instead, he deliberately showed mercy. And if he really went for the KO and got the KO, we wouldn't even be having this irrelevant discussion about excessive holding.

Oh, so now the referee's decision matters? Do you see just how contradictory your arguments and points are?

If your premise is based on: if the referee calls a foul a foul, then only then it's a foul.

Then by that premise, Wladimir Klitschko didn't foul Alexander Povetkin because the referee didn't disqualify him. Since by your own logic, the referee must call it a foul, for it to be considered a foul. And since he didn't disqualify Wlad against Povetkin, he didn't call it a foul. Therefore, Wlad didn't foul. Do you see how faulty your argument is? You need to take some basic logic courses!

Or, maybe you are aware that a boxer can foul his opponents, and the referee may allow the boxer to foul? So Joshua not being deducted points means nothing. Since he is a protected cash cow that has the judges and referees in his pocket, working in favor of him. Getting a gift stoppage against Carlos Takam, then getting a gifted referee against Parker where Parker wasn't allowed to fight on the inside, getting a gifted referee against Wladimir Klitshcko where he was holding and uppercutting and getting gifted judges against Alexander Povetkin where they had him massively ahead when they shouldn't have.

Referee didn't say foul DOE DOE DOE DOE, therefore not a foul DOE DOE DOE DOE. But that applies in Joshua's fights only, not in Wladimir Klitschko's fights. According to this clown!

And just for the record, Germany is not Wladimir Klitschko's back yard. Ukraine is. He simply happened to fight in Germany and earned millions of foreign fans. Joshua is too scared to leave his little UK and fight in foreign countries / territories. Heck, Joshua disgracefully fought Povetkin in the UK, despite having all other advantages in his favor, he still wanted the home town advantage too. That's how insecure and protected Joshua is a boxer.

And Joshua was constantly holding and hitting Joseph Parker in their bout, especially with the uppercut. So don't moan and whine to me about Wladimir Klitschko holding and fouling David Haye. Either criticize every fouler, or don't criticize any. You lose the right to complain about Wladimir Klitschko fouling, when you aren't being equally critical of other foulers like Anthony Joshua.