If Battling Jim Johnson Had Gotten The Decision Over Jack?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Dec 12, 2018.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    Battling Jim Johnson challenged champion Jack Johnson for his crown in1913.Jack was 35 years old and had not fought in a year and a half.
    The fight was a bust ,after a lively start the champion broke the radius bone in his arm in the 3 rd round and the fight degenerated into a boring maul.Jack came away with a draw .If his challenger, Battling Jim had gotten the verdict a new Champ would have been crowned ,he would have been the second black man to win the heavyweight title. The day after their contest in the same town,[Paris,] Sam Langford and Joe Jeannette fought for the French Federation's newly created version of the title.Langford won decisively over 20rds.
    If Battling Jim had beaten Johnson for the title on December 19th 1913 ,whom do you think his first defence would have been against?
    Do you think he would have fought Langford? Who , by his win over Jeannette looked to be the stand out challenger,or would public opinion /financial considerations have steered him towards perhaps defending against a white challenger, some one like GunBoat Smith who had beaten Langford on points just a month earlier?

    What say you?
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    Some reports suggest the injury happen in the final round when Johnson went to the floor.
     
  3. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,617
    1,884
    Dec 2, 2006
    To attempt to answer your question, I think Johnson would have waited in Europe where he was popular and fought any of Jeannette, McVea, Langford or perhaps Wells, Smith, Curran or Carp.
     
    BitPlayerVesti and mcvey like this.
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    Le Petit Parisien." To say that they returned satisfied does not exactly tell the truth,because a certain number expressed disappointment. Yet these two Negroes fought conscientiously.
    Jack placed many fabulous hooks to the jaw and not too shabby ones directly to the stomach.Already one counted on his victory,but when the fourth round was reached ,one remarked that he had stopped using his left arm.He continued nevertheless,and until the end of the fight he used only his right arm and resisted Jim."
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,568
    27,197
    Feb 15, 2006
    The only thing that I am certain of, is that every top heavyweight, would have sent a telegram to Battling Jim's manager!
     
    Kamikaze and BitPlayerVesti like this.
  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,584
    11,099
    Oct 28, 2017
    Whoever he could get the most money from, I'd imagine, so probably one of the white ones.

    What about Carpentier, what kind of money was he pulling in?
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    Carpentier wasn't big enough at that stage.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    The judging on the event.

    1 vote for Battling Jim.
    2 votes draw.

    It is possible/probable that since Johnson ran the show, he received a gift draw.

    Had Battling Jim be awarded the decision, I suspect his next fight is a re-match with Johnson or a match with Langford.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    Johnson had no input into the promotion whatsoever he had no say in the appointment of the officials or the referee who was French.Do you think that just for one you might confine yourself to answering the question?

    • The December 20, 1913, edition of the Saskatoon Phoenix (Saskatoon, Canada) stated:
    Jack Johnson, the heavyweight champion, and Battling Jim Johnson, another colored pugilist, of Galveston, Texas, met in a ten-round contest here to-night, which ended in a draw. The spectators loudly protested throughout that the men were not fighting, and demanded their money back. Many of them left the hall. The organizers of the fight explained the fiasco by asserting that Jack Johnson's left arm was broken in the third round. There is no confirmation of a report that Jack Johnson had been stabbed, and no evidence at the ringside of such an accident. During the first three rounds he was obviously playing with his opponent. After that it was observed that he was only using his right hand. When the fight was over he complained that his arm had been injured. Doctors who made an examination certified to a slight fracture of the radius of the left arm. The general opinion is that his arm was injured in a wrestling match early in the week, and that a blow to-night caused the fracture of the bone.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    Johnson was the champion and the main attraction. Most did nit know who Battling Jim was, and some thought they were cousins.

    I'm on the road, but there are reports that suggest the crowd, who was there felt Johnson injured his arm during a fall in the 10th round. I don't the Saskatoon Phoenix was at this fight.

    Jack was lucky this was only 10 rounds. 12, 15, or more and we have a new champion. I suspect the judging was partial to Jack Johnson.

    By the way this fight is rumored to be out there on film.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    There are numerous reports of Battling Jim being held in high regard by the French,Pollack includes several equating him with Langford! Johnson according to Pollack finished the fight stronger than his young challenger .

    Johnson had been stripped of the French federations version of the title just days before, he was 35, hadn't fought in a year and a half and was facing a young ,hungry , strong ,and powerful challenger,everything was set in the challengers favour!
    You suspect ! Why am I not at all surprised by this?lol
     
  12. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,191
    1,252
    Sep 27, 2011
    You'd have to know more about Battling Jim's character. I've never come across much information about him in that regard. Was he the type who'd risk it all in a first defence against Langford, or would he try to milk the title with a few soft touches? How about a rematch with Jack? Would he demand $30,000? I doubt he'd have lasted long as champ, so it'd be a case of whoever got him first.
     
    Mendoza and mcvey like this.
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    I think White managers and promoters would have been buzzing around Battling Jim like flies on a piece of dog turd.So desperate were they to get a White heavyweight champion I don't think Langford and Co would have got a look in.Moran,Smith ,Flynn,Morris would be to the fore with the black guys pushed out of the picture.
     
  14. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,617
    1,884
    Dec 2, 2006
    Carp had moved into the heavyweights around 1913, fighting Wells, Jeannette and Smith and doing OK. Be a damn interesting fight with Battling Jim. Somebody sais Jim was a hungry fighter, at 5-9 or 5-10 and 223 pounds he was anything but! Curran had a win over Johnson and was the popular English champion, while Wells was a type of fragile hero in that country. Any of the top blacks beat him at that point including Clarke, truthfully he struggles to make a top ten at that point.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    After Carpentier refereed Johnson v Moran, he was asked if wanted Johnson,he said he was at least a year away and needed to add weight.If you watch the fight Georges look like a boy next to Jack.
    Carpentier weighed 168.5lbs for Jeannette and 170 lbs for Smith.
    Photos of Battling Jim show a very powerful .muscular man without any flab on him.
    ps I think you will find Nutty Curran and he was just that,Nutty ,never fought Johnson. Curran was only partially recognized as British Champ,the NSC had a policy that if a title bout did not take place under their auspices, they did not recognize it,and the BBBOC later adopted this line of not recognizing Curran as champion retrospectively.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
    mattdonnellon likes this.