Finally certain proof that Hagler beat Leonard!

I take it you mean one significant fight, yes? He fought Lalonde and about five or six others at middleweight.

 

Lalonde was above middleweight. Technically he had about 5 fights there i guess. He had about three where both fighters were above 154 and not over 160 - Hagler, Duran and Camacho.

 

Weren't all those "officially" at middleweight, though?

 

My bad - I forgot the Camacho fight. That was officially at middleweight.

The other fights after Hagler were officially either at super middleweight (Lalonde, Hearns II, Duran III) or super welterweight (Norris).

 

Just because he could've done better, doesn't mean he didn't deserve to win.

 

The problem is he didn't win. And he didn't deserve too.

 

He fought Camacho for a middleweight title and both weighed over 154 so you can change that.

As far as Duran they were fighting for a 168 title and had a 162 pound weight stipulation but with both coming in as legitimate middleweights i would be heavily inclined to look at it as a middleweight bout when assessing SRL's performances at the weight.

 

Ray beat Duran by the scores of 119-109, 116-111 and 120-110. This was the Duran who had just beaten Barkley. If beating him by these margins is useless i would love to be useless at a lot of things. It may have been devoid of action and Leonard may have fought uber cautious but "useless" is a ridiculous description. I bet Barkley would have loved to have had those scores.

 

It's very hard to judge Leonard above welter (mainly his own fault) the inactivity for long periods, the injuries, the drugs, all that factors in his limited time above welter. So in fairness he really doesn't deserve to be considered a atg above welter, or even top ten. But the potential for greatness was plainly visible . He carried the weight well all the way up to super middle, he retained his speed and pop in his punches. So potentially if he stayed active he more than likely would've looked better than he did. Personally I don't rate him at all above jr.middle. But the potential was certainly their.

 

I thought Leonard edged it, have scored it a draw in the past, think there's two rounds that are mighty close and could swing but can't remember which as its been a while.

Think I've scored it 115-113 Leonard most times and once a draw. Some awesome rounds in it, Hagler has Leonard pretty hurt at a couple of points and didn't capitalise. Great fight though.

 

Leonard did what Leonard wanted to for the majority of the fight. Leonard won. I don't even see the controversy. Close-ish fight but only one winner for me.

 

This old chestnut again. Hagler was NOT robbed as many suggest. He lost in a close contest that could have went either way. The fact he boxed orthodox, in the process giving the first 3 or 4 rounds away, is completely his and his corners fault. He gambled and he lost, in a close enough fight. Close fights do not equate to robbery (as many suggest happened) I really cant see why this resurfaces time and time again