Does trash talk and brawls really sell tickets?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DavidC77, Dec 11, 2018.


Page 5 of 6
  1. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,191
    1,252
    Sep 27, 2011
    I don't think he did. You don't call someone you like an Uncle Tom and a gorilla.
     
    Berlenbach, Dec 14, 2018
    Berlenbach, Dec 14, 2018
    #61
  2. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,238
    2,434
    Mar 26, 2005
    If it has the chance to be a good....(or a great)...fight...then you don't need the BS.....unless you're a newbie to boxing...or some college freshman....that's the crowd that this kind of crap is aimed at! The fight should be able to sell itself!!!
     
    RockyJim, Dec 14, 2018
    RockyJim, Dec 14, 2018
    #62
    mcvey likes this.
  3. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,923
    1,618
    Aug 30, 2018
    I think Ali would if he felt it would gain him an advantage going into the fight.

    Ali said on more than one occasion between the Fight of the Century and the Thrilla in Manila that he liked Frazier.
     
    DavidC77, Dec 14, 2018
    DavidC77, Dec 14, 2018
    #63
  4. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,191
    1,252
    Sep 27, 2011
    And on how many occasions did he deride Frazier as an Uncle Tom, gorilla, white man's champion, n***** etc in that timeframe? I find the idea that he was saying all manner of nasty and spiteful things to gain some imaginary advantage over Frazier pretty absurd. I never saw any evidence that Ali genuinely liked Frazier.
     
    Berlenbach, Dec 14, 2018
    Berlenbach, Dec 14, 2018
    #64
    Pat M likes this.
  5. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,923
    1,618
    Aug 30, 2018
    I'm not denying that he insulted Frazier although I don't ever recall him using the word ni**er.

    As I mentioned before, Ali said it to gain an advantage by getting under his skin.

    I'm not defending Ali or saying what he did was anything other than unpleasant but in Ali's mind it served a purpose as it did with his other opponents who he would insult during the fights.
     
    DavidC77, Dec 14, 2018
    DavidC77, Dec 14, 2018
    #65
  6. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,191
    1,252
    Sep 27, 2011
    I don't think there was any purpose behind Ali saying those things. He was just being a *****, and Ali could be an almighty ***** back in those days.
     
    Berlenbach, Dec 14, 2018
    Berlenbach, Dec 14, 2018
    #66
  7. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

    18,440
    9,578
    Jan 30, 2014
    I’d imagine most people who talk trash do so because they hope it will give them some kind of an advantage. Few professional athletes sink to the hateful, pathetic depths to which Ali sank though. IMO Frazier would have been well within his rights if he’d punched (or even spit at) Ali for the things he said.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Dec 14, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Dec 14, 2018
    #67
    greynotsoold and Pat M like this.
  8. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,635
    5,183
    Jan 7, 2007
    It certainly doesn't hurt.
     
    GoldenHulk, Dec 15, 2018
    GoldenHulk, Dec 15, 2018
    #68
  9. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,923
    1,618
    Aug 30, 2018
    There clearly was a purpose.

    He said these things in the build-up to the fights to try to gain an advantage just like he would insult his opponents during fights.

    As Norton and Holmes said, Ali did it to try to annoy them and distract them from what they should be doing which was fighting him.
     
    DavidC77, Dec 15, 2018
    DavidC77, Dec 15, 2018
    #69
  10. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,923
    1,618
    Aug 30, 2018
    As I said, I'm not condoning or defending what Ali did.

    I don't think Frazier would have been within his rights to either punch or spit at Ali as obviously that would be a criminal offence. What Ali did was wrong but it certainly wouldn't have been deemed an offence in those days.

    Frazier did the right thing in letting his fighting do the talking and waiting until they were in the ring before trying to get revenge. But I think a lot of Frazier's subsequent resentment towards Ali was borne out of frustration at losing in Manila when it was his final opportunity to beat him and exact that revenge.

    Frazier would still have hated Ali if he'd won in Manila but I doubt it would have eaten him up for the rest of his life which is sadly what happened.
     
    DavidC77, Dec 15, 2018
    DavidC77, Dec 15, 2018
    #70
  11. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,191
    1,252
    Sep 27, 2011
    So how come Ali never called Norton or Holmes an Uncle Tom or a gorilla? He did call Foreman a "a white flag waving b****" for waving the US flag at the Olympics so maybe that was just trying to get under George's skin too?

    You started a thread complaining about fighters using trash talk, unpleasantness and insults before fights, yet here you are trying to justify Ali doing exactly that.
     
    Berlenbach, Dec 15, 2018
    Berlenbach, Dec 15, 2018
    #71
    mrkoolkevin likes this.
  12. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,923
    1,618
    Aug 30, 2018
    This content is protected
    ​
     
    DavidC77, Dec 15, 2018
    DavidC77, Dec 15, 2018
    #72
  13. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,191
    1,252
    Sep 27, 2011
    When you keep saying Ali was just doing it to rile Frazier and gain an advantage (rather than other reasons like Ali was just being a ***** like he often was back then), it looks to me like you are condoning it. Frazier didn't have to say he wouldn't repeat the things Ali said to him. Because Ali said them loudly and repeatedly in public over several years. And you still think Ali "genuinely liked Frazier" and was only doing it to get under his skin before they fought. Right.
     
    Berlenbach, Dec 15, 2018
    Berlenbach, Dec 15, 2018
    #73
    mrkoolkevin likes this.
  14. DavidC77

    DavidC77 Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,923
    1,618
    Aug 30, 2018
    Well, I'm not condoning it (how many times have I said it now?).

    A lot of the trash talk between fighters is disgraceful but mostly it is done to gain an advantage. That's a fact.

    People break into houses to steal valuable items. That's another fact.

    That doesn't mean I condone burglary.
     
    DavidC77, Dec 15, 2018
    DavidC77, Dec 15, 2018
    #74
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,577
    27,223
    Feb 15, 2006
    No, but they relied upon it more, the weaker they got.
     
    janitor, Dec 15, 2018
    janitor, Dec 15, 2018
    #75
Page 5 of 6