Fight of the Week #9: Chavez v. Taylor & Whitaker

I have watched Taylor vs Chavez too many times lol. But JCC vs Whitaker only twice and had a draw both times (I know that everyone else sees this as one of the biggest robberies lol)...interested to see how I score it this time....maybe tonight? Maybe tomorrow.

 

An excuse to watch Chavez-Taylor again? That’s all good.

Watching Whitaker-Chavez? If I must. Love watching Chavez but Whitaker? Not so much - he’s just not my cup of tea.

 

Whitaker slips a straight right at 9:20 because his head movement was far better than Taylor`s v Chavez.

 

Good fight, Taylor much busier, but JCC's punches were harder. At the end of 11 I had MT ahead by 106-104. The first time I watched this I don't remember seeing the deterioration of MT as the fight went on, this time, it looked more obvious that he was weakening. I scored round 1 even, I gave JCC rounds 2,3,10,11, and MT 4,5,6,7,8,9. I had MT up 6-4-1 after eleven, and if the ref hadn't stopped the fight in the 12th I would have it a draw because of the knockdown.

A lot of rounds were close and MT definitely landed more punches, but JCC landed effectively in most rounds, punches that looked like they hurt MT. I wouldn't have a problem with someone who scored this fight big for MT, I think I did the last time I watched it. This time I had MT ahead, but closer. JCC looked better than I remembered him looking.

 

That’s interesting - why do you think your scoring was significantly different this time?

 

Jel, I think my scoring was different because I took more notice of JCC landing hard punches on MT that shook him although MT was landing more. I just scored the JCC - Pernel Whitaker fight, in some ways a similar fight, but the big difference to me was that JCC couldn't land anything on PW that looked like it bothered PW at all. By contrast, JCC was getting hit a lot by MT but round by round MT was the one with the facial damage and he was taking punishment that was weakening him. PW just never took anything damaging from JCC and he appeared to land more and he seemed to land the heavier punches too.

I scored JCC - PW big for PW. I was again surprised, but IMO, JCC just couldn't handle PW's pivots, maybe the southpaw stance had something to do with it too? I gave JCC the 6th round and scored the 9th even, the rest I gave to PW for a score of 119-110. There were a lot of close rounds and I could understand if somebody gave a lot of them to JCC but IMO, it looked like PW was dictating the fight at all ranges. PW didn't appear to worry about JCC's power and PW won the inside game too. Good fight and although I scored it one sided I never felt like JCC was out of the fight. Again, a lot of rounds were close. I wouldn't want to be a judge!

 

Well you have convinced me to rewatch, the Meldrick fight. I have watched it a lot, but not paying attention to scoring....because with the result scorecards didn’t seem to be relevent, but what the heck. Why not.

Interesting to see your Whitaker card so wide (I think many saw 118-110 type of stuff), while I always felt it was close. I will have to see what my new card looks like. Appreciate yours, it is always hardest to put the first card out there!

 

I would be very interested in seeing your scorecard.

 

In Chavez vs Taylor I gave Julio rounds 2, 10, and 11 (close). I scored round 9 for Taylor (close), but can see this as an even round. Thus, I had Taylor up 107 - 102 or at worst 107-103 entering the 12th.

In Chavez vs Whitaker, as I recall I could only generously find 4 rounds for Chavez (116-112 Whitaker).

 

Well looking at Meldrick vs Chavez I see a wide scorecard...but can see how it could be close on other cards????

Going into the 12th I had Meldrick up 10 rounds to 1 for a 109-100. That might be too wide for some? Not sure? I gave Chàvez round 10 but thought 2-5-11 were close swing rounds. I think giving those close rounds to Chavez would make it 106-103 Taylor going into 12...not sure how it can be scored closer than that.

I do agree with Pat especially rounds 2-6 and maybe through the whole fight JCC lands the harder punches.

Taylor would have won a SD had the fight not been stopped, so we can critique the judge who did not score that way, but Meldrick would have won so it wouldn’t have made a huge impact.

The controversial stoppage has had numerous threads devoted to it over the years so we will see what happens in this thread? At the time I was outraged, partly because Meldrick is a Philly boy and partly because I lost money on this fight lol. I have since softened my stance. I don’t see Meldrick respond to Steele as he and Duva claim, and as much as I still hate it....I think it was the right call....but breaks my heart to this day.

I don’t want to hear how this fight “ruined” Meldrick as I think he fought great following this. I think the Aaron Davis fight was among his best performances. So while I will have to see 20 posts on how this fight ended Meldrick I will say it was the fight with Norris that finished him as an elite level fighter.

Great fight, great performance, horrible ending no matter how you view it.

 

Preach It!

I usually have Pea winning by a point. He won his rounds more emphatically but not emphatic enough for a 10-8 score. Neophytes forget that there are 12 mini fights, each weighted the same unless there is a KD or a real thrashing by one fighter, neither of which occurred. If I was to judge the fight as one long, 36 minute round, I would be more comfortable giving it to Whitaker. But that's not what happened.

 

Make no mistake bud, you're still comfortable giving the fight to Whitaker... it's just closer than most have it.

 

Chavez got three gifts - Taylor, Whitaker and Randall II. He would have been gifted Randall I as well if not for the low blow point deductions.

Whitaker beat him with Angles. Taylor out punched him with volume. Randall incorporated a combination of the two factors, plus had the power to hurt him.

Chavez was a great fighter, but hardly invincible. His status as WBC and Don King favorite son certainly helped him.

 

Well surprise I have changed my mind slightly on JCC vs Whitaker. I still don’t find it as wide as many, but I did score narrowly for Pea. I feel like Whitaker won 6-8 clean and clear, but marked the other 9 rounds very close. I scored 3-4 and 10-11 for pea but could see any of those going to Chavez. If I moved on anyone of them I could very easily have a draw.

Anyway:
Round 1 JCC (JCC 10-9)
Round 2 JCC (JCC 20-18)
Round 3 Pea (JCC 29-28)
Round 4 Pea (38-38)
Round 5 JCC ( JCC 48-47)
Round 6 Pea (57-57)
Round 7 Pea (Pea 67-66)
Round 8 Pea (Pea 77-75)
Round 9 JCC (Pea 86-85)
Round 10 Pea (Pea 96-94)
Round 11 Pea (Pea 106-103)
Round 13 JCC (Pea 115-113)

So I have 2 draws and 1 Whitaker 115-113 in the 3 times I have scored this fight. It really was not an exciting fight to me, and I don’t see why people call this a domination? Outside of 6-8 where Pea won them comfortable, the other 9 rounds were void of major exchanges. Marred by fouling, low blows and holding. I can think of a few worse decisions without trying real hard or searching them out.