do you give Joey Maxim credit for stopping Ray Robinson

Because he quit.

 

Robinson had 200 fights all over the world and I'm sure this wasn't the only time he fought in the heat, yet it was the only time he got stopped. The fact that he was in there with a strong and durable 175lber who outweighed him by 20lbs, rather than say Bobo Olson or Graziano, surely played a part in his collapse. IMO Robinson made the mistake of thinking he could KO Maxim and was landing some heavy leather in those early rounds. He built a big lead but didn't pace himself well and punched himself out. Maxim was no Archie Moore, but 13 rounds of being hit and leaned on by a bigger and stronger opponent still takes its toll. Robinson was ahead but I think it was a case of him winning the fight but losing the war.

 

I take nothing away from him I just put an asterisk alongside the result because with normal temperatures Joey would not have been the winner.

 

"His bigger body could take the heat better" you say. I'd be interested to see your rationale for why this might be so when common sense suggests the opposite.

Maxim was a big light heavyweight who would have had to make weight that same day. If the heat affected either fighter, Joey's having to cut weight would have made him far more susceptible to the heat and risk of dehydration, wouldn't it?

And think of hot countries in central America, Africa, parts of Asia. Now think of traditionally cold countries like those in northern Europe, North America, Russia. Can you see where I'm going with this? Where it's cold, bigger physiques adapt better and prevail whilst, where it's hot, evolution has tended to produce smaller people.

I may be talking utter nonsense and feel free to point out how this is so but try and do it backed by a good argument rather than by pointing out how stupid I am and how I must be a 'casual boxing fan'. Which reminds me. What are you doing on a thread about non-heavyweights dating back more than ten years, anyway? You'd best get back to youtube before you get a nosebleed.

 

Yeah yellow *******!

 

I used to like your posts but over the last few months there has been a perceptible decline in both quality and logic.
It's not how many are against you in an argument ,it's what respect you have for their arguments.

 

FFS so if your favorite soccer team loses and blames a slippery pitch you consider it a win?

 

This. Robinson would've received credit for beating Maxim, so I don't see why Maxim shouldn't get credit. Robinson put up a good fight, but completely underestimated Maxim's durability. Bob Satterfield, Walcott, and Ezzard Charles threw everything but the kitchen sink at Maxim and couldn't stop him, so Robinson was out of his mind thinking he was going to be able to maintain his usually high paced work rate and punch volume against Maxim without wearing himself out. Also, people don't give enough credit to Maxim, who was attacking Robinson's body after every Robinson flurry, which unfortunately for Robinson weren't putting a dent in Maxim. Maxim's body shots were gradually taking steam out of Robinson, since each round Robinson's legs were looking weaker and weaker.

 

Cute story. What does any of this have to do with Robinson being a natural 140 pound man. So him losing weight because of the heat will affect him more than a bigger guy losing weight. Also what does any of this have to do with Robinson beating Maxim until the heat got to him and he had to quit? Maxim was losing the fight. I could see if Maxing was winning the fight and Robinson quit because of the heat. You are a casual fan and I will ignore you. Now go back to the 180 pound Rocky Marciano could beat Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis ect thread like a good little casual boxing fan. Bye bye.

 

I stand by Maxim who claimed he would have stopped Robinson earlier had it been cooler.

 

just on whether bigger or smaller men can stand heat better, it would seem to me this is a scientific question, not a boxing question. As to the answer, I am certain it can be disputed, as almost all scientific theories are, but here are two relevant "rules" which seem to apply:

Bergmann's Rule-----is an ecogeographical rule that states that within a broadly distributed taxonomic clade, populations and species of larger size are found in colder climate, and species of smaller size in warmer regions.

Although originally formulated in terms of species within a genus, it has often been recast in terms of populations within a species.

The earliest explanation given by Bergmann when originally formulating the rule, is that larger animals have a lower surface area to volume ratio than smaller animals, so they radiate less body heat per unit of mass, and therefore stay warmer in cold climates. Warmer climates impose the opposite problem, body heat generated by metabolism needs to be dissipated quickly rather than stored within.

"clade"-----a group of organisms believed to be evolved from a common ancester

Bergmann's Rule-----from Carl Bergmann 1847

Allen's Rule----is an ecogeographical rule broadly stating that animals adapted to cold climates have shorter limbs and body appendages than animals adapted to to warm climates.

Allen's Rule-----from Joel Asaph Allen, 1877

*Like I said, this is science, and I don't profess to know the bottom line, but these rules do argue against a bigger man having an advantage in heat. Rather a fighter with long legs and arms compared to his weight would have the advantage.

**As for claiming Maxim or Robinson because of body type having an advantage in heat, I wouldn't go there. I would just say it was hot for both of them and leave it at that.

 

No you're not talking nonsense.

Cold climate creatures tend to be large and round for heat retention.

Warm climate creatures tend to spread themselves out for heat dispersal.

Here's a starter on the subject:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_and_heat_adaptations_in_humans

If anything Maxim should have been suffering the heat more.

 

I see Morbius beat me to it.

 

I was going to write an almost identical post to his... because I knew all that... definitely.

 

I hate it when people make excuses for fighters losing and try to take credit away from the winner.

So I have to go against that very same instinct here and say Maxim deserves credit.