I feel he is now, he has a really solid record with a lot of wins over top middleweights, both Twin Sullivans, Papke, Kelly, O'Brien, and actually pretty consistent for how often he fought. He was obviously getten worn out by his brutal career near the end, and it's a shame we don't have footage of him at his best, but those who saw him earlier rated him very highly.
I would have to think on this. I don’t know that he is underrated, especially in regards to the posters on this forum that rate fairly across the eras. But he does seem to be under appreciated, under discussed and maybe even largely unknown to some more modern classicists (is that a real word?)
I wish he had fought Sam Langford earlier in his career, or maybe have fought Fitzsimmons (though he'd be old at this point). His wins against Jack O'Brien and Papke really stand out, and we all know about his fight against Johnson. Imo he's slightly underrated but he's also been overshadowed by the likes of Greb and Hagler.
I really have trouble rating him very highly. He was a fighter of his era. He looks crude to me in the films of the Johnson and Papke fights, and I have trouble picturing how advanced training and techniques would improve him as a fighter in more modern times. I am open to being convinced, however. He has always been a puzzle to me.
Like Salvador Sanchez all those years later he just died too young. Had he lived on and made a bigger impact on the era, more would know his name. The story of the Jack Johnson fight is great too...how he sucker punched Jack and got his teeth knocked out for his trouble.
On film he doesn't look good - in fact, he looks terrible. If anything, he's probably overrated today!
Fast dangerous guys like Robinson, walker, cerdan, zale would have absoultley destroyed him.....no doubt
https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=CJ19251027.2.18&e=-------en--20--1---txIN--------1 Coronado Eagle and Journal, Volume XIII, Number 43, 27 October 1925 Greb Belongs With Best of Middleweight Boxers Harry Greb's sensational victory over the courageous Mickey Waler was due to qualities which only two world middleweight champions, Fitzsimmons and Ketchel, have excelled. Greb as a boxer and fighter is in the same class with the famous Tommy Ryan, Jimmy Clabby, Frank Klaus and Bill Papke, although Papke carries a heavier wallop; Greb would have been outslugged by Fitzsimmons and Ketchel but he might have defeated Jack Dempsey, the Nonparell, who really was a welterweight. Walker would have conquered an adversary of less mentality than Greb. The quick thinking of the middleweight champion and his thorough knowledge of ring tactics proved too much for the little Irishman.
Ketchel's first fight with Papke Los Angeles herald., June 05, 1908, Page 6, Image 6 https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85042462/1908-06-05/ed-1/seq-6/ Ketchel KOing Sullivan San Francisco Call, Volume 103, Number 85, 23 February 1908 https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a...-en--20--1--txt-txIN-ketchel+sullivan-------1 Compare to his fight with Papke that we have film of. The San Francisco call., July 06, 1909, Page 11, Image 11 https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...d-1/seq-11/#words=ketchel+papke+Ketchel+papke For rating Ketchel the Papke video is worthless.
What do ya think? If we should have a Super HW division and a HW division, why can’t we have a classic forum for people who appreciate classic boxers and another for those that hate them lol
Why does it matter, what reporters wrote almost a century ago? You are very knowledgeable, and have watched 10 times more boxing than anyone in 1925 - so you should be richly qualified to form your own opinion. And judging from what we have of him on film, it's only too obvious, that Ketchel really wasn't all that good!
I doubt, if there are posters here who actually hate the classic boxers. Why would they? Those who don't believe, that boxers from 100+ years ago were superior to today's fighters... could they not just be expressing their honest opinion? Without any hatered being involved?