Was Primo Carnera trained down?

He looks huge in that photo. He was a circus strongman probably increased training led to a slimmer fighter. I’m glad opinion of him as a fighter has changed a little over time. While never world class I think he was unjustly maligned by a bitter press Corp that had their own agenda.

 

If you’re a 280lb all muscle machine, a straight right hand is simply going to hurt a ton.

Unless you’re Primo Carnera

 

Thomas Myler states in his book " Boxings Hall Of Shame that both the Stribling fights were pre-arranged the first one in London to be a dsq for Stribling for hitting Carnera low and a re-match in Paris with the same promoter Jeff Dickson,this time with Stribling the winner by the same method ,a dsq . Stribling hit Carnera very low with a soft shot in the 4th rd to lose the first fight.In the return Carnera hit Stribling after the bell ending the 7thrd and backhanded the referee, prompting an instant dsq.If the two fights were indeed fixed as most believe, it might account for Carnera coming in rather heavy as for a pre-arranged fight that much dedication to training would not be necessary.

NB I notice Stribling was 9 lbs heavier for the first Carnera fight than he was for his title challenge against Schmeling,again, if the fight was fixed why train your arse off?

 

Never world class? There was a period of time when he was the best in the world.

He most certainly was a world class fighter.

 

Ok I stand corrected. I guess it depends on your definition of world class. If Everyman that ever held for title is considered world class then yes he is. I wouldn’t argue that.

 

Cool

 

In 1933 when he was champion Max Baer was number 1 contender and Max Schmeling was number 4. I would argue there was never a time he was better than either.

 

And that is a valid argument. However Carnera was the king of the castle until he was dethroned.

You could argue the same many times in history such as Patterson/Liston, Wladimir/Vitali etc.

And whilst it is a valid viewpivie, I feel strongly that if you go ahead and beat the highest ranked fighter in your division, you deserve the recognition until you're beaten yourself.

 

Being champion doesn't make him the best around.He took a couple of gimmees before they decided to cash in with him against Baer and it was all downhill from there.
As far as Im concerned he was," never the best in the world " which is what you said.
Neither were Burns,Patterson ,Johannson, and arguably a few other heavyweight champs.

 

Though to the original point I don't think being World class, requires being the best, more the level of a legit contender, and I think all the legit world champions atleast meet that.

While the Maxs were better in hindsight, I'm not sure if that was so much obvious at the time too.

 

Yeah as I said, it's a valid argument you have.

I just think until it's proven, it's hard ranking others above the champion.

I'll give an example, if I may, Odlanier Solis I was absolutely convinced he was the best HW in the world going into the Vitali fight. He had the speed, power, athleticism and technique to beat anyone. But one round later he's suddenly a bad joke when it comes to Cuban HW boxing.

Had he beaten Vitali, he'd have deserved all the plaudits in the world, but he didn't so giving them to him before the fight would have been premature.

We all know Liston destroyed Patterson, but imo he had to beat him to earn that title as best in the world and until the point he did so, it was rightly Patterson's.

It isn't an argument in particularly passionate about, it's one I often switch over. Times in the past I've probably been on your side of the fence.

But at the very very very least, we have to say Carnera was in the argument as to who the best HW was (once he'd knocked out Sharkey) and with that in mind he was certainly at the very very very least a world class HW.

 

Everyone knew Liston would be champ as soon as he got Floyd into the ring.He had cleaned the division out!
Solis had beaten no one. I don't think the Sharkey ko was legit.
If Carnera was a world-class fighter ,how come he fell apart after the mob ditched him? How come he lost to Leroy Haynes ,a journeyman when he was in his prime at28 ?

The best I can say for Carnera is that after being engineered into prominence he held his own against a few fringe contenders.I don't buy any of the revisionism I see here on this forum.Just my take on it.

 

And as much as everyone knew Liston I also knew Solis would destroy Vitali. But the difference is, one won the fight, one didn't. Which is why now I consider a man the best until he's beaten.

If you think the Sharkey fight was a fix, that's an acceptable reason to dispute Carnera being world class. If that was a legit KO would you then change your stance?

Many fighters go on bad runs before and after big victories, that's nothing new. For some, like Buster Douglas or Hasim Rahman, the stars only align for one night.

I don't really get caught up in revising opinion, for me if a man is a champion, he's a world class fighter. That applies for anyone who's ever laced them up. Tbh I probably extend the definition to anyone who's ever been ranked amongst the ten best in the world (within their division). Brezeale for example is a world class fighter imo as is Chisora.