Old Foreman vs Wlad Klitschko

It has been proven worse. There is no issue.

I asked you to name me any world class fighters not named Wlad that he's faced. The only name you could muster was Dimitrenko, who is barely serviceable as a world class fighter and isn't a puncher, so it was worth you going through the motions to help you realize that, in terms of barely world class fighters, Pulev is 1-1 (with the loss being a KO defeat).

This^ is funny.

It does not create a logical dilemma. It demonstrates Pulev being susceptible in the chin department. As you suggest, the proof that his chin is "dentable" has been provided, whereas there is no evidence to suggest Old Foreman's chin is a problem.

This^^ is funnier

You're ok with theorizing about Old Foreman getting Knocked Out but don't care to theorize about what would happen to a 37 year old Pulev if he faced Joshua. He'll get Knocked Out, if and when the fight happens.

And this^^^ is really quite hilarious.

Pulev does not resemble Foreman in any way, whatsoever, in terms of style and level - none.

Pulev has had 6 bouts in four years since being made to look an amateur by Wlad; not one with a ranked fighter. His consistency will show, if and when he steps up in class for the second time only to fight Joshua and gets Knocked Out again.

Old Foreman, in the same length of time, from '87 to '91, went 25-1, with his only loss coming by way of decision against Holyfield.

Foreman is leagues beyond Pulev; but you keep on trolling...

 

Foreman’s second career was carefully orchestrated, i’m Shocked so many posters on here were fooled into thinking it was more than it was.
The man feasted on journeymen was lucky to get the decision against Alex Stewart. Lucky against Schulz, maybe even lucky against Savarese. Never deserved the Moorer title shot coming off a clear loss to Morrison. But got it any way and pulled off a Miracle way behind.
People are using fights against smoking Bert Cooper as proof he could beat Wlad lmao.

 

Adilson Rodriguez was ranked in the top ten so thats actually 2 top ten opponents (Moore and Rodriguez).

Foreman dropped stewart twice and then he got on his bike and avoided foreman for many rounds. Morrison completely changed his style and decided to not engage foreman. Why are you blatantly lying? Or did you not see these fights?

Incidentally, holyfield said foreman was the hardest puncher he fought, so go figure. Foreman was Also nearly 50 when he fought Schulz, savages, and stewart!

How many guys did peter ko at that age? How many top 10 opponents did peter ko?

You also failed to address how foreman has a better jab, better defense, a better chin, and better ring iq than Samuel peter ever displayed in his entire career. I think we both know why you and BCS8 keep avoiding this issue when you make this stupid comparison between foreman and peter.

 

The OP is not asking for a rating and comparison of respective ledgers. It's a discussion about a fantasy head-to-head match-up - one fight; something you've not managed to take on board in the last 10 pages or so.

 

Pulev getting kod ends all comparisons in the chin department. Doesnt matter if wladmir is an atg and a hard puncher, foreman went the distance with a prime holyfield and even took a brutal 20 punch combination. He tooks shots from Morrison, Briggs, Cooney, cooper, etc and never went down let alone out. Peter and Pulev are not in the same stratosphere, foremans chin is more than proven in over 70 fights against multiple men who weigh over 220 and have a 70% ko ratio or higher. The stats speak for themselves, no one is knocking foreman out unless he lets it happen.

 

Ok. H2H old Foreman comes out Wlad with far superior hand speed lands his jab and hook off the jab much like he did to Charles Shufford who had the exact same dimensions as Prime Foreman. Foreman being old and slow and not used to fighting a bigger opponent period, never mind one that throws text book technique right hands tries to close the gap knowing at 40 years of age he can’t last long taking this type of punishment at range. Wlad with quick feet of a youthful man steps back as Foreman comes forward. Rinse repeat. On the very few occasions Foreman closes the distance he gets tied up. Referee breaks Wlad goes back to his jab, a far better jab than Alex Stewart, Tommy Morrison or Axel Schulz, Foreman begins to really swell and get bloody. Over reaching boom he gets nailed with a right hand, Foreman is wobbled, Wlad doesn’t go for kill, he steps back and continues to probe with the jab, boom another right hand. End of round. Foreman doesn’t come out for round 7

 

So, really - the way to make a result of this fantasy match-up fit your belief is to simplistically overstate Wlad's positives and Old Foreman's negatives. Give advantages to one and none to the other.

Wlad becomes a combination of Ali and the "text book" in technique, while Foreman gets his boots rolled in tar and has his arms broken, prior to the first bell.

Moreover, the repeatable formula you have summarized for Wlad is not something I could say I've ever watched him carry out. He has been closed down by flat-foots and has actively, indeed willingly, closed the distance between himself and an opponent, rather than take "steps back" - particularly, when he has felt he's had the upper-hand.

Of course, in those real-world scenarios, the opponent has actually been allowed to throw punches back at Wlad. Your speculative version of events, summarized above, doesn't allow Foreman to do so.

I can understand why. Any scenario, which allowed him to do so would need to at least entertain a very strong possibility of Wlad getting hurt.

 

Good thread this one

 

ut Glass City Cobra,

Don't you think Foreman feasted on many journeymen from 1987-1997 and that greatly inflated his KO %? Yes or no?

Take a look at the records of the opponents Foreman beat from 1987-1990 for a moment

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/90

Journeyman/ washed up fighters who Peter would have stopped too.

Now once Foreman stepped up in class which opponent in the top ten did he stop? I only see Moorer a chinny former light heavy. That's it. The rest when the distance, and he lost the Alex Stewart fight in 1992. Tyson, Holyfield and Moorer Ko'd Alex Stewart. Old Foreman takes him the distance and looks like a mess at the end of the fight. I think he lost that fight, but for the sake of business, the judges gave it to him. I ask you where is this power??!! Later on, others stopped Stewart who did not have a good chin at all!

Then Old Foreman takes Morrison, Savarese, Schultz, and Grimsley the distance! Why?Grimsley and Morrison were not remotely durable or defensive, and they gas easy yet you Old Foreman would think beat Wlad who is much harder to hit, smarter in the ring, and way more talented? This makes zero sense. Old Foreman lacked the skills, and power to beat non top ten guy natural heavyweights who were not journeyman. I just proved that to you. Maybe Morrison was in the top ten when he fought Foreman, but the fight was not close.

• Judge: Dalby Shirley 117-110
• Judge: Patricia Morse Jarman 117-110
• Judge: Jerry Roth 118-109

• Unofficial HBO Judge: Harold Lederman 116-111

What? Rodrigues was Ko'd less than a year ago by Holyfield in two rounds! He was certainly not a ring rated top ten opponent for Foreman. Prove it. I highly doubt you can, but give it a go, I could be wrong.

Yes I saw Alex Stewart beat the **** out of Foreman, didn't you? How did Foreman's face look after that fight? Do you think Foreman won that one? News papers were calling on him to retire! Stewart by the way had weaker chin.

• Foreman made $5 million and Stewart got $250,000.
• Foreman was a 6 to 1 favorite.
• Stewart was knocked down twice in the second round.
• Foreman lost one point for a low blow in the tenth round.
• At the end of the fight, both of Foreman's eyes and the right side of his jaw were badly swollen.

*** if not for a 10-7 round, Foreman looses and was out boxed by a mediocre Stewart on judges who favored him being the cash cow! ***

I also saw Tommy Morrison, who was anything but a boxer easily out box Foreman. Morrison not know for defense or durability, did it rather easily, you you really think Wlad could not???? This makes zero sense, and you aren't even replying to Foreman taking Saveresse, Grimsley, or Shultz the distance. Come on, man. I saw almost ever significant fight in the 1990's at heavyweight including many obscure ones. Its the decade I probably know most about for heavyweight boxing and actually was worth the PPV money spent. Wlad badly beat Shultz IT was not close. Briggs said Vitlai hit harder than Foreman, and everyone knows Wlad hit harder than Vitali.

I'm not arguing Peter for anything, but he Ko'd Maskeav who was in the top ten and beat James Toney, who might have been in the top ten. Yes Toney rated #3 in 2005 before losing to Peter, so he was ranked for sure. My point was showing you how inflated Foreman's come back KO percentage was. I see no comments on the guys he took the distance, none of who could stand with Wlad.

 

Wlad’s not getting hurt by old Foreman. Even if Old Foreman could track him down. Old Foreman went the distance with Schulz, Stewart, Savarese, Grimsly, Briggs and so on, Wlad was world level. Ok so Foreman lands a few punches on the difficult to land on Wlad, doesn’t do much and Wlad continues to box his old head off.
And yes Wlad had text book technique on the right hand. And the jab. Was bigger than Foreman, younger and more athletic. Foreman faced no one like Wlad in his comeback and would be seriously hurt most likely. Tell me how you see the fight

 

Yes what does this have to do with a comparison of punching power between foreman and the C level guys who beat the dog crap out of prime wladmir klitschko (Brewster, purrity, Peter, Sanders). It's common fvcking knowledge foreman was a 38 year old man coming off a 10 year layoff. No boxer in history ever made a comeback that insane and he was wise to go about it that way.

Stop changing the goal post. Stop ignoring the fact wladmir struggled with boxers who were inferior to foreman and pretending like he would just "easily" control foreman with a jab for 12 rounds. You and bcs8 and the other clowns have already been exposed for ignoring this glaring fact.

17 of peters 42 bouts were with men who had losing records (more losses than wins), or who had less than 10 fights or multiple ko losses so lets not even go there lol.

• Rodrigues was ranked tenth by the WBA. He was the first top ten opponent Foreman faced during his comeback

George_Foreman_vs._Adilson_Rodrigues

• Judge: Art Lurie 94-93
• Judge: Dalby Shirley 94-93
• Judge: Patricia Morse Jarman 94-94

• Unofficial AP scorecard: 96-92
• Unofficial HBO Judge: Harold Lederman94-93

Several people though foreman won apparently.

Stewart was a 6'3 227 pound power puncher with a 90% ratio. Foreman was 43 years old. Did brewster or peter or purrity or sanders ever fight someone that dangerous in their 40's? What hapoened when a 40 year old wladmir fought a prime hw with a high ko%? He got knocked out!

Briggs also said foreman hit harder than lennox Lewis. So did holyfield. Do you really wish to continue using testimonies as evidence?

 

Rodrigues was ranked when Holy took him apart in two rounds, not when he fought Foreman after that.

 

Schulz, Stewart, Savarese, Grimsly and Briggs are anything from a year to six years after Foreman/Holyfield, i.e. post-'91.

Puritty, Sanders, Brewster, Fury and Joshua - none had faced anything like Wlad before and yet still managed to beat him; four out of five of them by way of KO/TKO. None of them, not even Joshua was as strong or as good a puncher as Foreman. Holyfield, to this day, considers Foreman to be the strongest opponent and biggest puncher he ever faced - but Holyfield only faced the likes of Bowe, Tyson and Lewis - so what would that seasoned all time great heavyweight know, eh?

You make it appear as though Wlad had no faults - always text book - ok, if you say so.

However, are you genuinely expecting me to take the point seriously that, if Foreman lands, nothing happens and Wlad merely carries on with his "text book" performance? - Because, that is so funny, I've had a to take a few moments out from typing, just to to chuckle at the extent to which Klitschko fanaticism can drive people to delusion.


I've already told you what I think would happen and its a shedload more realistic than the story you're trying to sell.

I've never seen Wlad get hit without it causing him some degree of consternation. The range of dismay he suffered varied, but he never just instantly brushed it off. His "text book" went out the window and he started looking like a man who'd suddenly and accidentally set himself alight.

So, as previously related, I understand why you need to think that either Foreman can't land or, if he does land, nothing happens. But, given Wlad's record of both taking punches and how he reacts to them, each of your aspirations in this respect, are utterly unrealistic, as is your need to believe that Foreman would retire by round-7, which is another totally unsupported aspiration that your prediction holds.

The bottom line is that Comeback Foreman was better than the men that actually did stop Wlad and he probably would have been Wlad's best opponent, overall, anyway. So, it shouldn't be a surprise that one might consider Foreman to be quite capable of beating him.

 

Well I strongly disagree and you seem to forget that Wlad ruled the division for 11 plus years defeating all challengers. Pointing out pre-Steward losses and post Steward passing losses with the exception of the Brewster bout which was their first fight together. I don’t give Old Foreman any chance(slim) I believe he was a product of good matchmaking. But you are entitled to your opinion. Nice chat. I believe old Foreman has better chance beating Lennox Lewis being that Lewis was ko’d twice by single shots and was more likely to engage. Interesting view

 

I think Wlad would stop him maybe 8-9 rds in good fight