At 20 Which heavyweights past or prestent could have won the heavyweight title from Berbick in `86?

Maybe Wlad who won the gold medal at age 20, and turned pro later in the year.

 

Why are you talking about Tyson vs Stevenson? You've completely lost me on that front.

Tyson and Stevenson were different KO type fighters for sure. How could they not be? Does this mean no-one could possibly KO Berbick if he wasn't a Tyson clone?

Tyson was a better fighter than Stevenson and had more first rounds ko's etc etc etc. I am simply throwing Stevenson in there to get people thinking outside the box and maybe even start some interesting banter.

Do i think he'd get it done? No. Is it possible he potentially could? Yes imo.

 

Not many.. Berbick was a decent fighter and strong. It takes more experienced than most 20 year olds have to beat him. Frazier probably.

 

Nice one. JT. Berbick is a favourite against most 20 year olds but Stevenson is one of a small handful who might have a shot.

 

Very few.

Sam McVea might be one of the less obvious prospects.

 

OK I have crunched the numbers:

Tyson was 20 years old and five months when he beat Berbick.

At this stage Joe Louis was coming off a scare against Adolph Wiater, who was no great shakes, but a month off a rather impressive win over Stanley Poreda. Remarkably we have to conclude that Louis might not have been ready for Berbick yet, and that if he did defeat him, it migth have been in a fairly competitive fight.

Floyd Patterson was fighting at Light heavyweight at this stage of his career. Hard to make him a prohibitive favorite on that basis!

Ali was at the Lavorante fight at this stage of his career, and he called the round. He would go on to struggle against Doug Jones, and Henry Cooper. As with Louis, Berbick would be a tough step up for him at this point!

Enter the dark horses:

Sam McVea was regarded as one of the top two contenders for the title, a year or so before this stage of his career! He had a knockout win over Denver Ed Martin, who was very highly regarded at the time. At this precise point (20 years 5 months), he was coming off back to back losses against Jack Johnson, so he was probably very demoralized at the time.

Luther McCarthy had a win over Carl Morris at before this stage of his career, and around this time, he would have a controversial draw against Jess Willard. A month or so later he would knock over three or so of the best white hopes back to back. Perhaps he belongs in this discussion?

I will also throw in there that some people who saw John L Sullivan from ringside, said that he was at his best at about this point, though nothing about his surviving record supports this.

 

Floyd Patterson would ko him

 

Clay, I think would be too fast and elusive.

Patterson would probably be too fast as well. Berbick was big and strong, but he was no big puncher. The main obstacle for Floyd would be to get past that jab, but I think he'd start to time it eventually.

Joe Louis took apart Carnera when he was 20. I'd pick him over Berbick as well.

Foreman was just debuting as a pro at that age, but he had his ramrod jab and it's hard to see someone who was slow and didn't have much punch or movement beating any version of George. At 21 he would ragdoll Chuvalo, so I don't see Berbick outmuscling him. Parallells might be drawn to Lyle, but Lyle was a bigger puncher than Berbick, I think.

 

But the question wasn't if they would beat a 20-year old Tyson when they were 20 themselves. It was whether they could beat Berbick at 20.

 

Ali moved plenty when he was 20.

 

No, he got decked by Cooper not Jones.

Watch him against Daniels and Moore at 20 and say he wasn't elusive. There is no film on Youtube of his fight against Lavorante, but Lavorante was ranked in the top 5 I think and Clay dealt with him easily. As he did with Moore, another top 5 rated fighter.

He did look poor against Jones, but Jones was a much quicker fighter than Berbick. Very different style wise. And you can't go by that fight alone. If you watch his fights from the early 60's you'll see that he moved a lot and was hard to hit. It happened (like against Banks as well), but it wasn't very often.

So could the Clay that easily Moore and Lavorante at 20 also beat Berbick? Of course he could.