Jim Jeffries v Rocky Marciano 15rds

Was he at the fight? Did you even bother to read the news clip. It says

" Keen judges of the game who saw to-nighis fight declare that it was the cleverest exhibition ever witnessed in the ring. " DUH. And you're busted.

Siler could be biased. He's seen being a bit partial to Fitz vs Corbett, and escorts a woozy Gans into his corner after the bell.

 

I have a report of that day and it states is was a good fight.

You using a book written 40+years after the fact that says a fix, and prove to me this author was at the fight and the date of his brith.

McCoy weighted as much as 185 pounds. If the news say she was heavier by several pounds in ay previous fight, pick a known weight from a fight a year ago and add a few pounds to it. As I said before, if McCoy won this fight, he's in line for a title fight with Jeffries. A large purse.

 

Right, you pick what you like from books, some of which are poorly researched. If we are going to use what X wives who were not at the fight said and take that as fact, boxing history better brace itself. Who told her they rehearsed the ending in the room? You never said.

And no, you're not getting off the hook. Was the author you mention at the fight or not? Prove it, and his DOB please.

Ted Dorgan wasn't a boxer or a manager. He was a cartoonist. You're counting that as an opinion?! Do you have any idea how silly you look?

Not that I need to debate you much, you say one thing, and go back against it later.

 

Fool, he's known best for his cartoon work. His real first name was Thomas anyway.

I see you can't produce proof the author of the 1947 book Ten and out was there or is date of birth. I could post more news reports, and they say the fight was lively. You love to **** on Corbett too, so it doesn't surprise me you think this fight was fixed, oh wait you later said you are not sure if it was fixed.

Is there a brain among your multiple personalities???

 

I am referring to heavyweight champions.

Out of 22 champions between 1882 and 1962, Louis would be #5 in height and #5 in peak weight in a championship fight. That makes him one of the bigger champions.

*Not that it matters much, but guys like Schott and Lenglet are just fringe contenders. Also, like reach, who knows about these listed heights. Satterfield is on film, and I would say viewing him that there is no way he was 6' 2"--an even 6' at most and possibly not that tall. He would be tall and thin if he was 6' 2" and about 180 lbs., but he was a muscular fellow and much, much shorter than for example Valdes and looking no taller than Charles.

 

"we've established I rank him as better than you do."

h2h this seems very true.

 

Honestly, my point is that Old Louis would not have been a fringe contender in Jeff's era. I think he would have been a most formidable contender.

How would either Old Louis or Jeff would do against modern giants? I do not profess to have a good grasp on that but I wouldn't be sanguine about the chances of either one of them, and certainly not Jeff who looks to have a very shaky defense.

 

Interestingly on the same page there is an article claiming the fight a fix and giving the details of the alleged arrangement.

headlining,

"BLATANT, BAREFACED FAKE SAYS HOUSEMAN"
"Special to the Call"

included in this article

"the affair reeked of evidence of prearrangement from time call to count out."

"From the first to the fifth round, McCoy . . . stood up and took punching which the veriest tyro must have evaded. There was no attempt on McCoy's part at elusiveness. He backed into corners and ran into jabs and swings which Tom Duggan could have avoided."

The details of the alleged "deal" between the two fighters is given:

"as his price, McCoy is to receive 60% of every dollar in the house, that is to say, the whole of the contestants share is to be paid to the vanquished one. Corbett is to receive not a penny save that which will come to him by reason of his clouded victory and the two years theatrical contract made a month ago, contingent on his success against McCoy."

Well, the other article said the purses were divided 75% to the winner and 25% to the loser, or $18,000 to Corbett & $6000 to McCoy.

If there really was an under-the-table deal between the two, McCoy would have pulled in $24,000 for throwing the fight, while Corbett would be banking an even more lucrative theatrical contract for the next two years. Lots of money for that era for both men.

Thanks for posting this article, as it gets right to the nub of the fix claims and on the day of the fight.

What is my take? Adam Pollack in his biog of Jeff maintains that Fitz was not really interested in fighting a rematch with Jeff in 1900 or 1901 as he could make more on a theatrical tour, so it follows that the same would be true for Corbett. Whatever, the bottom line is that there was potentially enough money sloshing around to make a fix financially attractive.

But, fix talk was so common back then in all fights that who knows. A bottom line though is that with boxing under this fix cloud Corbett signing such a contract, with a lot of money coming to him only if he could reestablish himself with a victory over McCoy, was at best showing dubious judgment. It just looks bad and is fodder for speculation. This assumes of course that this article is correct about that contract.

 

As for weights for McCoy, these are listed over at boxrec

3-15-1895 McCoy 146 -- Billy Maber 143 (for some version of welter championship)

12-17-1897 McCoy 155 1/2 -- Dan Creedon 157 (for a version of middle championship)

1-12-1900 McCoy 163 -- Joe Choynski 165

4-22-1903 McCoy 173 -- Jack Root 168

10-16-1908 McCoy 168 -- Jim Stewart 203

So McCoy was a welter five years earlier. The several lbs. heavier is versus what? The bottom line here is that McCoy probably fell somewhere in the 160's in shape, a modern super-middleweight.

What exactly does it say about the heavyweight division in the 1890's and early 20th century that men in the 160's like Fitz, Choynski, McCoy, and Frank Childs were top level contenders, and in Fitz's case, the champion?

I think my question about Corbett remains valid even if we accept, w/o proof as I see it, that McCoy somehow fattened up to over 170 for their fight. When was the last time Corbett defeated a good fighter who was heavier than a modern light-heavyweight? I think one has to go back to Sullivan eight years earlier.