Joe Louis vs modern giants: settling tbe debate.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Glass City Cobra, Jan 5, 2019.


  1. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1) How many times do I need to keep saying it, yes I believe Ali wasn't fully developed, especially in the Banks fight and probably the Cooper fight.

    2) Oh dear god, Cooper caught Ali with a better shot than Liston ever did. Do you disagree with me? Forget about how it happened, the fact is Cooper dropped him and Liston didn't.

    3) You are too thick to realise the traingle theory doesn't work in boxing. Cooper dropping Ali doesn't mean he hit harder than Liston or that he was a better boxer.

    4) You're right, I could never be in cloud cuckoo land like yourself.
     
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    You said a couple of posts previous, I found the post that was a couple previous and nowhere did you mention anything about how Wilder beats Louis.

    You have a much lower opinion of Louis than I do, but atleast it's something to do with Louis, not just the weight of Louis.

    I think a plodding stalker is a bit unfair on Louis, he only really looked plodding in one fight in his prime and that was the first fight against Conn, he looked statuesque that night, but still managed to come from behind and win. In the rematch he proved he was more than a match for the quicker man and made short work of him. Louis has slower feet than a LHW, but compared to men his own size or bigger his feet were a positive, he often got himself into killer positions at both close and mid range to set up huge combinations. I definitely do not think he has slower feet than Wilder.

    No one has the chin to take flush punches from Wilder all night, the problem is he telegraphs them and windmills them from miles away which gives people opportunity to counter.

    Louis is defensively sound enough to avoid the overhand right and he has a superior jab to Wilder, plus he is leagues above on the inside. If Wilder tried walking Louis down behind bombs he will just put himself in range to be caught with the shorter punches.

    I think Louis has no issues slipping inside and working up close until Wilder falls. Because whilst Louis can't take Wilders best punches, the converse is true also. Wilder cannot take too many clean shots from Louis neither.

    I think Wilder has a better chance if he jabs on his back foot and looks to counter over the top of Louis's jab. But even then I see Louis cornering him at some point and ending affairs before the final bell.
     
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  3. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wilder is at his best when his opponent comes looking for him, Louis is a classic stalker. He would time Louis and land that big right hand, he can throw it straight down the pipe with blazing speed when need be. Louis just doesn't have the speed of foot to get inside the danger zone IMO.
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Ortiz is a plodder and nowhere near the skill level of Louis and he very nearly had Wilder out of there. Had he picked his shots better it could have been game over.

    I see no reason why Louis couldn't have better success.
     
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  5. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ortiz also had to get up off the floor first and survive Wilder's onslaught. I don't think Louis had the chin to do so.

    If Buddy Baer can knock him through the ropes in 1 round then Wilder puts him to sleep IMO.
     
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  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Louis got off the floor to win in this instance as well which actually proved his chin.

    The way Ortiz walked Wilder down and punished him, Louis does the same. But only Louis gets the job done.
     
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  7. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Wilder hits harder than Baer i think it's safe to say, Louis would probably fail to beat the count.
     
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  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Why is it safe to say he hits harder than Baer?

    Even if Wilder did drop Louis, the balance of probability points to him getting back up and knocking Wilder out.
     
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  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't .
     
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  10. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Go and look at the knockout ratio for starters, what makes you question that then?
     
  11. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Thankfully you are wrong.
     
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  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Based on what?
     
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  13. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Based on him having a higher KO% than Baer.

    So come on, tell me how Baer hit harder than Wilder.
     
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  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Knockout ratio. How much does that really tell us?

    When Ali fought Liston Ali had won 13 out of 19 by KO. Liston had won 25 out of 36 by KO. Both very similar KO percentages, are they to be seen as very similar power wise?

    Briggs has the record for most first round knockouts is he to be seen as the most dangerous 1st round fighter in history?

    Buddy Baer was a murderous puncher. His power has never been in question, only his fundamentals. Which ironically can also be said about Wilder.

    When you have two big punchers like that it's hard differentiating who hits harder, or who's punch is most likely to keep you down for the count. Like Joshua and Wilder how will we ever know who hits harder, and they share an era. Plus as well as power you have to be able to deliver the blow as well and time it effectively.

    Either way the fight with Buddy Baer proves Louis and his chin. Louis would get back up, walk Wilder down and knock him clean out.
     
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  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    You're doing that thing again where you pretend someone has said something that they didn't.