Ortiz has to actually BEAT some of these guys before I can put him ahead of them. Saying that he will beat them, but not fighting them, defeats the purpose of actually fighting. And for the last 2 fights, Ortiz has chosen a couple of bums. Joyce, Usyk and a couple of other good fighters are calling him out but I think he will do like the rest of the division and fight another bum. hoping for a title fight after that.
He said yes to Joyce according to reports, and if the stories are to be believed Usyks team said they are 70% likely to fight Ortiz. I hope it’s Usyk but I’ll happily take Joyce, Ortiz isn’t unbeatable by any means but whilst the top contenders choose a lower risk opponents I don’t wanna penalise him for that. Just like when Sturm, Geale, Martinez Cotto and Canelo didn’t wanna fight GGG I didn’t penalize GGG for that I said he is the goods based off the fact the top names don’t want. However when Ward said yes, did I say okay GGG should take this fight because it’s a name and he wants it. If Usyk calls out Ortiz and Ortiz avoids him for a less name or quality opponent I will go against him on that.
Mate, you're digging a hole here. Simple fact is that actually boxing proves more and means infinitely more than NOT boxing. Whilst Ortiz doesn't box anyone of note, you 'llow it. Whilst anyone else boxes anyone but Ortiz, you say it's a 'duck' or you penalise them for it. Enough with Ortiz already. The entire HW division for the last 3-4 years has centred around the UK. Ortiz could have done as Parker did and go on a tour to make some money, maybe win or lose, but turn up at least. You slam others records but all I've seen of Ortiz recently is plodding around with Dave Allen, getting sparked by Wilder (who has subsequently lost to Fury by points) and labouring against Kaufman. Hardly trail-blazing. Yet for some reason (I can only speculate that it's perceived potential...implied odds...?) every man and his dog seems to have Ortiz head and shoulders above the already seasoned, but young and fit, Parker and every other young lion at HW. People will still be singing Ortiz's praises even after a potential Usyk loss. "He still bogeyman yo. Only lost to elites mate, everybody duckin'..."
You really think Ortiz wants to fight the Allens and Travis Kaufman’s of this world? You’re naive to how this business works if you think it’s as simple as just ‘going on tour like Parker’ to get the right bouts. Parker has a big NZ fanbase and big financial backing. Everybody wants a piece of that. The man struggled to get a big fight before Wilder, and is struggling even worse after. I don’t understand how you fail to see that. He wants to get paid and has called out everyone, even Whyte who takes on all comers declined him in favor of a big money rematch with Chisora. His destruction of Jennings and close fight with Wilder on their own are better than anything Parker has done. Being Cuban he has a tiny fanbase, brings little monetary incentive, yet is clearly a very good fighter. A perfect storm for being avoided.
I would like to see Usyk fight Marius Wach. That would be hilarious. Wach would not land a single shot.
You may excuse ducking but I don’t. I hate it, I want to see the best fighters fight the best fighters, I hated it when they did it too GGG, Rigo whoever. You excuse these guys fighting sub par opposition but they don’t wanna fight Ortiz coz he is 50 years old blah blah , if you don’t mind it that’s all good but I do. Btw this ain’t about Ortiz more so than it’s what Ortiz stands for, this could be Hgrovic, Yoka, Joyce or whatever if none of the top guys wanna engage with the contender knocking on the door it annoys me.
Ortiz was Wilder's toughest fight apart from Fury and he needed help to get the win. He is clearly being ducked by most of the division including AJ. It would be an impressive first fight at HW if Usyk took it but then again all the haters are going to hate Usyk no matter what he does. He could KO AJ, Wilder and Fury and people would be saying they were exposed. Unfortunately too many haters on here. Objectivity here is as rare as a boxer of Usyk's quality and spirit.
You've expressed your subjective views on Usyk and that's fine, but then you speak of objectivity. You can not be objective and subjective at the same time, you're either one or the other. We're all subjective in our posts here for the most part and that's fine. Some might sound like 'haters' but that's their opinion.
Saying Ortiz was Wilder second tougbest opponent is not saying much considering Wilder's third toughest opponent is Duhaupas. I think Ortiz is being ignored similar to the reason Briggs is when he calls the top guys out and not because hes the divison bogey man. Reason why Ortiz is ignored is: If a fighter is looking for an opponent with an impressive record: As proven abilitty goes Ortiz only has one notable win on his record which was 3 years ago. There are many more proven fighters with better resumes in AJ, Povetkin, Fury, Whyte, Parker, Pulev, Miller and Wilder. If a fighter is looking for an opponent to move up the rankings: As far as ranking goes Ortiz is only ranked highly with WBC, which has a title holder who doesn't fight anyone other than out of shape fighters. So there's little point if your a fighter who needs to move up rankings in the WBC who would pose a threat to Wilder as Wilder just wont fight them. The only other board Ortiz is ranked with is the IBF at 7. In which lesser fighters are ranked higher than Ortiz in Wallin, Kownkacki and Helenius. If a fighter is looking for a payout: Ortiz has very little following/ fan base and a fighter fighting him won't earn any where as can do with some of the other top 10 fighters.
OMG imagine!! Uysk would become the GOAT for sure. Only one man with the hardest punch in history has been courageous enough to get in the ring with Ortiz who everyone is too scared to fight...
Isn't it at all possible that Ortiz doesn't actually want to fight a threat unless it's for an unreasonable pay day? Just maybe....? The dude has an entire career of fighting absolute puddings apart from Jennings and Wilder. Why are we all assuming he's trying really, really, ever so hard to fight people but they're ducking??????? People seem to forget that he had his title shot already. There are other fighters who have more exciting styles and generate vastly more money who are still waiting for their shot. Ortiz should be back of the queue! He has no impressive win, speaks no English, is old and undynamic, has no draw and got sparked badly by Wilder. Take a look at Whyte ffs, his recent fights amount to more than Ortiz will achieve even if he had another 5 years in the game yet. Still the view persists: "His destruction of Jennings and close fight with Wilder on their own are better than anything Parker has done." What the MF have you been smoking PunchersChance??? Parkers record reads like a who's-who of the HW division already! Ortiz doesn't have the minerals or physicality to attempt 50% of what Parker has achieved. Some say they won't excuse the 'ducking' of Ortiz but I am in the seeming minority who won't excuse Ortiz's sense of entitlement, lack of activity and utterly lack-lustre boxing career to date. He had his chance, blew it, and won't grind to get his position in the rankings. Funk him.
Wilder receives next to no credit from many of the same Usyk fans that are now trying to make this into a big deal People crack me the hell up. Ive seen non stop asterisks next to Wilders win, talking about age and blood pressure, ect, ect... and now if Usyk fights the same guy almost two years later, its cheered. That being said.... I think its a very good fight and I would have understood if Usyk had taken an easier fight for a heavyweight debut. I think if Ortiz was a few years younger he would have given Usyk some serious problems and maybe Id have picked him to win, but this Ortiz seems like age really is slowly wearing him down. I expect Usyk to simply be a bit too sharp and outbox Ortiz to a UD. If he does that, I will still give him credit for taking Ortiz as an opponent as a debut and for winning an impressive decision.
This is why I made this thread, I gave Wilder all the praise for beating Ortiz and Usyk gets similar praise too. It’s not a given aswell that Usyk wins, Ortiz is dangerous, he is very accurate, good footwork, excellent at stepping in and out of range. A lot of these guys are so biased when someone they don’t like fights a threat they make excuses for why this person isn’t that good, however when their guy fights the threat they deify him smh. A lot of these same guys saying Ortiz is 57 probably said Wilder was scared of Ortiz when the fight first fell apart and after he fought him and beat him Ortiz turned to a bum overnight.
