If Max Schmeling hadn't beaten Joe Louis, how would this effect your ranking of him?

If he hadn't beaten Louis we would talk about as much as people talk about tommy burns, maybe less actually.

 

He's part of 27 boxers i could convince myself to have in the top twenty (although he wouldn't usually make it) and yeah the Louis win is a big part of it. Had that not happened he'd join the 16 Lineal Champions that i would never have in the top twenty.

I think he'd still be remembered more than Champions like Marvin Hart or Jack Sharkey because of the Nazi Germany connection but definitely not as much.

 

If Louis had won the first bout (or Shmeling didn't exist, for some reason), the one of the most important bouts in modern history wouldn't have occurred, and social culture in boxing and in general public would be very different around that time, particularly for African Americans etc. Perception wouldn't be changed for the boxers alone.

Edit: that first piece wasn't particularly relevant, rereading your post. I'd say Schmeling wouldn't be considered as a great heavyweight, and would be sidelinedand forgotten as the years went on.
(and probably made fun of on odd Internet forums like other past heavyweights).

 

I already regard Schmeling as a middling champ, if not on the lower end. Losses to Baer, Louis, and poor performances against Sharkey. He never fought Carnera or Braddock.

If he didn't have the win against Louis, he'd be in the lower quarter of HW champs, I might even rank him lower than Sharkey


Now, Joe Louis on the other hand...

Undisputed GOAT if Schmeling also lost the first fight

 

Quite possibly, but the analyst such as yourself, would be able to see that he was more than that!

 

It would significantly alter his standing.imo

 

People really have to reconsider their lofty view of Louis if it teeters so easily on the Schmeling win...

If Schmeling wins, besides that win, he's a level above bum status...

If he loses, he's a straight-up bum.

So Joe Louis got the snot beat out of him and knocked out by a poorly regarded fighter... Yet Joe Louis gets no trouble over that and it doesn't make sense.

When that conversation comes up, Schmeling becomes better than he normally does when Louis isn't in the context. Also Louis becomes "pre-prime", even though hes a well-known killer by that time and beat several better quality guys for the time. Already regarded as a future champ.

 

Yeah i definitely wasn't saying he'd be a bum just a lesser regarded champion than he is. Without the Holyfield wins what would we think of Bowe? I think only the top 8-9 guys (if even that) have several signature wins once you go beyond that most only have one (if any) and i don't think you'll find anyone that'll have Schmelling in the top 8-9 because of the Louis win.

 

I exaggerated to make a point. He would be a weak champ... Held in low regard. Better? Splitting hairs.

 

"If he loses, he's a straight-up bum.

So Joe Louis got the snot beat out of him and knocked out by a poorly regarded fighter... Yet Joe Louis gets no trouble over that and it doesn't make sense."

As Joe Frazier once said: "If my opponent has heart enough to climb through the ropes, and has two fists, I respect them". That is basically how fighters feel about each other.

 

I think you misunderstand my meaning.

I am not saying those things, but exaggerating the sentiment.

I said that makes no sense to me.