Before the Jones era Shogun was without a doubt the LHW GOAT. I think DC is close in terms of wins but Shoguns resume is just a tad bit deeper at the weight.
You should post some deets on Shogun's Pride era accomplishments. Most people around here have no idea/weren't following MMA that long ago.
Without a doubt? I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Wanderlei clearly had the better career and deeper resume. Liddell is up there too though his loses to Jackson put him slightly behind.
Shogun had success in the UFC as well. Now Wanderlei was war torn by the time he got to the UFC but still... Shogun winning another major belt and with some more top wins gives him a slight but significant edge a shame he and Wanderlei never fought.
Wanderlei had the better career in Pride, nobody with sense in going to argue that. I just don't see what Shogun did in his UFC run that should put him over. I guess it comes down to how highly you rate Machida as that was Shogun's only title victory and really his only A-level scalp in the org.
It's pretty tight resume wise as far as their pride resumes are concerned - I could see the argument of Wanderlei having a slightly better resume but not a significant edge. It's hard to separate the two in Pride but for me it comes down to eye test, as Shogun was clearly the more dynamic and technical fighter.
It really isn't. Shogun's best pride wins were against Jackson and Arona, 2 guys Wanderlei holds victories against. Wanderlei also had a lot more quality wins. Shogun did utilize a wider variety of strikes but more dynamic? Idk about that dude. A prime Wanderlei on the attack put the fear of god in opponents, it was something special to watch. By the time Shogun was just emerging as a top fighter Wanderlei was already on the back end of his career. For all his promise Shogun's UFC career was/is something of a disappointment.
I can think of no other reason why he'd have juiced unless he felt it would help him win a fight he needed help to win.
Wanderlei has what 10 or so more fights in Pride? All things considered there's not that much of a difference in terms of top wins. Anyways. I'm willing to give Wanderlei a slight edge in Pride for that reason but despite Shoguns mixed success in the UFC his briefly being the man there at LHW gives him an edge as far as greatness is concerned. I wish they would have fought in Pride so this argument wouldn't have to be had lol.
I think by 2005 Wanderlei had declined enough that Shogun would've been the favourite. That being said there were periods in his UFC run where Shogun looked bad enough against guys like Griffin and Coleman that even a faded Wanderlei at that time might've been able to take care of business.
Wand was seriously devastating in his prime. DESTROYED Rampage twice, beat Sak a few times, drew with a prime Mirko in Mirko's wheelhouse, slugged it out with a prime Mark Hunt. Dude was bad! Arona was his kryptonite, but Arona was a seriously bad dude. I don't know if Shogun had a better run than Wand in Pride, but he did have a better run out of the two in the UFC.
Shogun at his best in PRIDE was a totally different animal then the version who fought in the UFC and imo he was as good if not better then Cormier and a fight between the 2 in there prime would have been tough picking a winner.
