Rank these chins

Holy was floored by Bowe in their first fight but no I don`t if Rock could have taken the shots Holy took in that bout he could have taken the punishment Holy took in the second bout because he didn`t take many poweer shots in that one, Holy v Lewis wasn`t a fight when both guys were going for the KO I didn`t see Leewis anything in those bouts that would trouble Rock at all, also the reason Marciano wouldn`t have survived with Lewis compared to Hoy was that it was a cagey fight with just points scoring whereas Rock would have been hit more by Lewis by coming forwards.

 

All these guys were tough with great chins. I don’t get why it’s yet again turned into an anti-Marciano thread.

His detractors assure us he was a short-arse, T-Rex armed, cut prone, attrition puncher. Well he must’ve at least had a ****ing great chin to get to the level he did, fighting the style he did? But no that’s questionable too now. FFS he can’t win (except for the 49-0 times that he did).

 

Is any of the underlined untrue?
How many big punchers did Marciano face? Walcott ,Moore ,and Layne? Where would you put them in the grand scheme of all time punchers?
Why would becoming a champion mean you had to possess a great chin?
Its not about detracting from anyone's legacy,it's about studying the facts and arriving at an objective conclusion.
My only argument here is posters putting Marciano at the top of that list .
I disagree with them because he never proved he could take the shots of a big hitting Shvy, and the 2 best punchers he faced floored him.

That seems an entirely reasonable stance to me!

 

Which big punchers did he avoid?

Valdez is about it and he destroyed the guy who beat him. How can you hold it against a man for not fighting Shvy’s that simply didn’t exist when he fought (and the ones who fit the physical dimensions at least were mediocre at best)?

The two best punchers he faced floored him but barely hurt him and he knocked them both out conclusively. Plenty of other great iron chinned fighters who were floored (Ali, Dempsey,Tyson) can’t say likewise.

I’ve no issue whatsoever with where Marciano is ranked chin wise but to suggest that it’s unproven or marking him down because it wasn’t tested against fighters who simply didn’t exist when he fought is very harsh towards him in my view. Marciano proved again and again his toughness, will and yes chin.

 

Vitali
Mercer
Holyfield
*Foreman
Baer
Marciano
Willard
Braddock

* While Foreman's chin was good, his stamina was not. He was floored by the likes of Jimmy Young, and took a 10 count vs Ali, partly because his gas tank wasn't very big. "

 

I think you are referring to Paulino Uzcudun. Historians take note.

 

That’s my pick. Never saw the man hurt as I’ve seen the others hurt he kind of wins by default. If he had faced a Liston or Foreman or prime Louis I may have a different opinion but we have to go by what we have.

 

Marciano that fought Moore yes. I think Lewis out points him but I don’t think he falls.

 

It isn't about who he avoided,its about who he actually faced,no one is accusing him of ducking anyone,certainly not me!
According to Marciano himself Moore hurt him and he blacked out for a couple of seconds.Source Peter Wilson's interview with him in Ringside Seats.
If you don't fight a big hitting SHVY,then by definition you chin MUST be untested,and unproven against them!
That is just basic logic?
The circumstances as to why you didn't face one are irrelevant and immaterial!
Bottom Line.=YOU DIDN'T!!!
It isn't a criticism its a stone cold fact!

 

What do you have? Walcott,Layne, & Moore.
You can't say he wins by default, it's like saying a guy who never faced a southpaw would have no problem handling one! The fact is you have no idea until he actually fights one!

Who knew Mildenberger would give Ali problems because he was a rightie prior to their fight actually taking place?
Marciano might have done very well with the big guys,his work rate might have run them out of gas.
Equally he might have found himself bounced around like a basket ball and wrecked before he could really inflict any damage of his own, as Frazier did against Big George.

 

No wrong yet again!

"Because I never got hit much ,I never got cut up.
But I got twenty three stitches in my face.
The punch that he knocked me out with,he hit me with a left hook in the stomach ,this was in the eighth round,and a right hand in the mouth.and I had naturally,the mouthpiece in.
He drove the tooth through the gumshield and right through the lip.You see what power the guy had.
When he knocked me down,I could have stayed there for three weeks."Jim Braddock from a taped interview by Peter Heller in Braddock's home on Sept 9th 1972.


FYI
Uzcudun had a gold bridge Louis smashed it when he ko'd him and Paulino's teeth were strewn on the ring .The reporters said they," looked like a charm bracelet".
"Id wait for an opening.In the fourth I hit him with a right to the jaw.he countered with a left hook.I banged a right over his left and he went down for an eight count.When he got up,I hit him with a left and right to the jaw,sending him against the ropes , I could see his face split open
and some of his gold teeth sprinkle down on the canvas." Joe Louis" My Life".page 77

No charge for the education!
Mendoza was ignorant of these facts , historians take note!lol

 

It's also a fact that Rocky didn't face a 6-armed Martian and his chin is therefore also unproven against one of those.

What's that, 6-armed Martians don't exist?

Well neither did decent SHVY's in Rocky's era and saying he's unproven against them when they didn't exist makes about as much sense as the Martian analogy. His chin was proven against the best punchers and fighters of his era and that's all you can ask. And even if he did black out "for a couple of seconds" he recovered damn quickly and beat Moore's arse the rest of the fight. That's heart, will and recovery on display right there for you.

Ranking him last on this list (as you did and below Willard who was blasted out by a 187 lb guy who he outweighed by 60 lb's ffs) is taking a huge leap of faith particularly when Willard and Braddock, neither of whom beat a SHVY either, had records and reigns that were a hell of a lot less impressive than Marciano's. I'm actually curious how you came up with that conclusion actually.

 

Foreman walked into a shot from Young went down and was upright without taking a count.This is blown out of all proportion on here by people like yourself.

From the first round Foreman came out looking to blast his opponent out,swinging for the fences with those huge arms .Later he picked his spots
Foreman ,at the age of 42 went 12 rds with the heavyweight champion Holyfield without once seeking the comfort of his stool.
He went 10 rds with champion Moorer when he was 45 before koing him, again without once sitting down.

George's problem was not one of stamina it was a lack of pacing!
As he got older he learned to relax and take his time in there.In his second career he never had any problems with endurance.
Do you think an athlete's stamina improves when they are in their 40's and carrying 30lbs of extra weight?lol

The trouble with some posters,and here I'm specifically referring to you, is they don't know WTF they are looking at!

 

I've enjoyed a lot of your content for the most part, but you are reaching into the realms of the Twilight Zone here.
You seem to be labouring under the delusion that I am criticizing Marciano for not facing class SHv's who could bang which, as you rightly say were non- existant when he was champion.You are also correct when you state that it wasn't his fault and that he never ducked anyone.
None of this changes the fact that, because he never faced any he is unproven against them!
Nobody, least of all myself has ever questioned Marciano's heart and will.
To sum up, you are frantically defending a position ,that I have not attacked!
Now to address your other points.
Willard took Gun Boat Smith's right hand flush several times.Smith recounted that his punches had no visible effect on Jess. I believe that version of Willard would absorb Walcott,and Moore's punches without going down,but that is only my opinion.

Willard was a fat, 37 year old, 3 years out of the ring, when he fought the big hitting Dempsey.
Dempsey hit him with everything including the kitchen sink, he hit him when he was arising from the canvas and he was hitting him with 5 ounce gloves on.
Archie Moore was a great lhvy with an impressive ko record ,half of which are over nobodies,he was also, according to himself 38 years old and, according to his Mother 40 years old.Walcott was 37.
Is it surprising that a tremendously well conditioned fighter,[anyone ever in better shape?] managed to outlast them both in wars of attrition? Braddock faced many bangers, Baer probably being the heaviest hitter before he ran into Louis,none of them put much of a dent in him.
I submit that Max Baer hit harder than anyone Rocky ever met.
I doubt there is much to choose between Marciano and Baer for power,though obviously Rocky is the greater fighter.
I hope this clears up any misunderstanding of my position on your part and look forward to more of your posts and debate in general with you.