Did you or didn't you write that if we saw Greb back then that we'd look at him as a " crude brawler?" What am I inferring incorrectly about that? And what great advances do you see in the sport technically and tactically since the "stone ages?"
You said "To simply dismiss factual results out of hand because one hasn't seen film of the proceedings", I wasn't dismissing his results at all. I think more boxers have done the exact same skills that boxers displayed then (1920s, 1930s etc) but to a higher standard of proficiency, technique has got sharper not to mention major physical improvements, greater speed etc. Plus I think the top fighters of today are displaying greater variety of skills and techniques that they were displayed back in the 20s and 30s too, no fighter in the 20s or 30s could fight anywhere near as well as Lomachenko, Rigondeaux, or Mayweather. I never said it was the stone ages, it is just obvious to always anyone who isn't on a boxing history forum that sporting excellence has tended to increase over time.
Okay, fair enough. This thread is about opinions that someone is going to take issue with. We're going to have to agree to disagree about boxing technique simply following suit with every other athletic endeavor and rising up in form and substance as some natural matter of course. It doesn't work like that. Curious about how much classic boxing you've seen though What is it exactly that Mayweather or Rigo or whomever might do that is so groundbreaking or how exactly does it represent the culmination of all the experiences of those lesser times? How does that improvement manifest itself?
I love watching classic boxing, if a historical fight can be found on the internet then i've probably seen it. I think Mayweather, Rigondeaux and Lomachenko can certainly defend themselves better than any other fighters i've seen (Benitez and Whitaker also spring to mind). I'm not sure if Mayweather, Rigondeaux or Lomachenko have in their repertoire anything that is brand new in terms of technique (although that pivot move that Loma uses all the time might be brand new but perhaps some fighter amateur or pro was doing it before, perhaps even Rigo himself) but they have all mastered a large variety of techniques and part of the reason why is because they are incredible athletes, their balance, speed, agility and coordination is truly outstanding. You could teach everyone their techniques for 20 years and only a handful would match or even get close to their level of proficiency.
Ok I know im going to catch alot of flak but here goes: Jose Napoles was great but very overrated .Hearns and Leonard would have both beat him. Whitaker would have beaten Duran. Whitaker beat De La Hoya. Holmes was just as good as Ali just lacked the charisma. Rocky Marciano gets underrated. Hagler would have beaten Monzon . Leonard viewed Curry as a threat at one point . Michael Nunn would have possibly beaten Roy Jones. Bernard Hopkins vastly overrated. Aaron Pryor would have walked through Mamby easily . Antonio Cervantes would have beaten Benitez in a rematch. Sumbu Kalambay is a top 15 middleweight of alltime. Saad Muhammed at his best beats Qwai. Qwai tasted Spinks righthand in the first round and was hesitant to go after Michael. Larry Holmes won both Spinks fights. Chris Eubank beats JC at his best. Steve Collins gets overrated because he beat two British legends on the decline .
Okay fair enough, but none of those guys really invented any of that. There's always going to be standout fighters in any era. The thing is ( in my opinion anyway) the standouts we see today probably stand out more because of the general dearth of skill we now see. I see far more fluidity and purposeful upper and lower-body movement in the old timers; more feinting, smoother combinations, more stamina, more defense in the pocket, you name it. Good talk though, I respect your right to your opinion.
I can’t say with any degree of certainty, but I think that would warrant a point deduction. If he pulled that crap (pun intended) twice he should get DQ’d
A bit to unpack here. Agree with the statements about: Collins, Hagler-Monzon, Marciano. Disagree with: Holmes being as good as Ali, Pryor walking through Mamby.
