If Roy really had a glass jaw then he must be the GOAT. From 1989 to 2004 without taking a big punch? Wow
I do think Floyd's win over Canelo was very good and gets severly underrated, I have to say. I have no problem with anyone feeling that Floyd edges this because of his longevity, seeing how close they are otherwise. But excluding Roy from the discussion purely for what happened from his mid 30's onwards definitely is at odds with how I rank fighters.
Nah. We've been over this before, and nothing has changed. The performance Canelo turned in was one of a green, deer in the headlights, unsure of himself type of performance. Nothing I would get overly excited about. Much older and less talented fighters at least tried to make it a fight, Canelo seemed happy to get a paycheck. Nothing special about that performance.
Seeing how he's never looked like that before or since, it might just have to do with something Floyd did right. Oh, and while we're at it, Floyd's performance against JMM is also underrated.
I agree to an extent. I do like Floyd's performance against JMM better than Canelo, because JMM at least tried to win that fight. Canelo literally made minimal effort to win that fight. It was one of the most tentative performances I've ever seen on the big stage. It was brutal to watch, let alone trying to applaud the performance. My issue with the JMM are well known by all. Floyd weight requirements and the fact that JMM never fought there again says enough about how we should view that fight. Still though, nobody made JMM look like that, and he tried, so I give him credit. No it wasn't Floyd though, as fighters WHO ACTUALLY TRY AND TRY AND WIN, had more success, while being older and less talented. Take Cotto for example, he tried and tried, and while having limited success still did more than Canelo, while being much older and with less natural talent. Maidana isn't as skilled as Canelo but do you see what happens when fighters ACTUALLY TRY, they can have success against Floyd. Oscar and Pac at least came to fight and had more success than Canelo, while again being well past their prime. Shoot, Ortiz looked more in the fight than Canelo, and that should say enough. You act like everybody has the same type of success Canelo did, and therefore, nothing more should be expected. Only fighters had more success against Floyd, so what does that say?
Except for Maidana and Castillo, I think they only had marginally more success. He had full control of the other fighters (even though DLH managed to impress the judges by just moving his hands without actually landing), so I don't buy into your talk of there being some marked difference. The marked difference is that no one else has made Canelo come close to looking like that. Bigger, younger fighters. None of them has made Canelo look that hapless, so what does that say?
Undefeated and p4p rated Hatton was dominated and KO'd by Floyd. P4p ranked Mosley was dominated bar the first round, p4p ranked Corrales was dominated and stopped. So it's not like Canelo is an oddity in this regard.
How in the world is Canelo green at this stage? It is akin to those who say SRL was green against Duran. He was 42-0-1 at that point and 10-0 in title fights. I do think he has improved since then and although he might not be at his apex/peak he is certainly in his prime at this stage and a quality victory.
Four-division champ Canelo Alvarez is better right now than he was when Floyd faced him. But, like you said, he was 42-0-1, a two-division world champion and an eight-year pro when Floyd beat him. He was hardly "green." It was a clear win for Mayweather. The scores were over-friendly to Canelo. Can't believe this topic is still being debated. It's comical.
Usually agree with you Bokaj .. but here just can't .. May had 11 pounds on him from where JMM was fighting at.. Am wondering if you expected JMM to come out looking the same after carrying around 7 more pounds for the first time ever? Of course May did everything right .. He got to fight at his normal weight he was fighting at for 4 years .. JMM is a 135 pound guy, not 147 , and a 130 pound guy a year pryor to that. JMM win , not even in the top 5 for me for Floyd …
Come on man, 10 title fights to that point? lol. Let's look at these world class title fights that surely raised his experience level to world class levels: Luciano Cuello Ndou Mathew Hatton Ryan Rhodes Alfonso Gomez Cintron Josesito Lopez The only name fighters he fought was an ancient Mosley. Baldomir who had already been exposed and Trout. Trout was the first world class operator he met, and I scored that fight for Trout (as did others). So where was all this renowned boxing experience against world class foes? As I said, till Mayweather, Trout was his best foe, and he arguably lost that fight. His performance makes it clear he wasn't ready for that moment. Anybody could look at him and see how tentative he was and that the moment was too big for him. When that happens, they at the very least have tinges of Green. There can be no other way when you perform like that. He's shown MARKED improvement since that fight, which you admit, which gives further credence to him not being in his boxing prime. He was no doubt in his physical prime, but that isnt' the same as your boxing prime. As mentioned, other less talented and older fighters did better than Canelo. How do you explain that if he was ready for the big time at that stage?
Not in my top 5 of Floyd win either, but Marquez would show he was a quality fighter also at this weight and Floyd just outclassed him. Made him look levels below. And while JMM fought at his highest weight, Floyd just came back from a lay-off. That's why I think it's more overlooked as performance than it should be.
really Marginally more success? Now we're getting absurd here. Castillo likely won the first fight, while I had May pitching a shutout against Canelo. That's marginally more success? The first Maidana fight was close, and while I had Floyd winning, it was certainly more than marginally more success that Canelo. Judah, again tried, and had more success. Same with Cotto, more success ACTUALLY landing blows. Not sitting there wondering what it would feel like to actually throw a punch and hit Floyd. An ancient Mosley stunned May more than he's ever been hurt. I'd say that is more than marginal success, when I'm not sure if Canelo landed more than 20 punches the entire fight, let alone hurt Floyd. Oscar clearly did better, and ancient Oscar, and decisively so, again nothing marginal about having more success. Hatton got KTFO, but in his short stint in the ring, he landed more punches in half the rounds than Canelo did the entire fight. Again he was actually trying. To even try and disguise Canelo has being close to what he is now is bordering on comical. This is even skirting around Floyd again making weight demands to drain fighters... and I'm supposed to be impressed by this?
