yet you just asked for a measurement of just such a thing. never taking into account that if it were measurable, there would be no need for this discussion, we could just pull up the spreadsheet.
Anthony Joshua is about the same height as wilder, just different builds right? There is at least a 30 pound muscle difference between them. Who hits harder if going all out and not in fight/opponent mode? What if Joshua lost 30 pounds of muscle and got down to Wilders weight? What if the opposite happened and Wilder gained 30 pounds of fast twitch muscle??? How would they power change?
He would put on more muscle and maybe more fat, but then he can cut more fat then he originally had, and dehydrate and still make 147. So many tweaks you can make.
Yeah first you need to define what exactly it is that we are measuring... someone becoming a better fighter performance wise through muscle gain? Or punching harder? The first one is complicated to measure, the second one is more straight forward... you have a heavy bag hat register how much hard you are hitting while you are unloading on the bag... And then you would need to pack on muscle and keep taking measurements till they stagnate or go down, then lose muscle and see where you reach the optimal point. Don't think a test like that has ever been done because it is ridiculous, but I know MANY world class fighters that have done the "bulk" process having originally started of as talented, skilled prodigee's.
Wilder's power wouldn't increase I don't think. Not by much anyway. His power seems to be generated by extreme, agile catapulting movements. He's probably optimum for his body type at 220-225 ish. Joshua has a different style of punch. He pushes through his shots which is a more of a strength-based exercise, so his optimum weight/muscle mass is higher (perhaps 250), but there would be no point pushing him up to 300 by having him train like a powerlifter. The gains in punching power would be minimal to non-existent … before we get to the point he'd gas in one round
That's why I said all things being equal. Lower weight divisions are another matter completely because we all know that fighters leave a big % of themselves on the scales
I actually agree with your breakdown on their punch mechanics. But clearly both of them have gained muscle mass since turning pro, and it's worked out for them. If they had remained as they were prior... they wouldn't be as effective.
And I agree that (correctly proportioned) muscle mass adds power. Totally agree. My point is that there's a hypothetical upper ceiling for each individual, which varies on body type.
The problem with carrying false un-natural(to you) muscle is it hits stamina. All that extra muscle has to be supplied with oxygenated blood , so heart n' lungs are workng un-naturally hard. Not only does this cause slower reaction as limbs feel like lead but this is followed with really painful cramps ... just look at Bruno's fights that went on abit, he would be virtually panting. Lewis could carry weight as he was a natural big built guy,these muscle bound guys that don't fatigue are on summat & it ain,t momma,s milk.
Weights are absolutely necessary to reach your full power potential, in my view. But that potential has an upper limit. You can't just go on adding muscle mass and therefore power forever. There was talk of a formula above for establishing optimum size and power . Obviously there are just so many variables, but maybe it looks like - Height x agility (vague I know) x median bone length x median bone width x bone density x median joint circumference = "X number" optimum muscle mass. I'm quite sure sports scientists are on this already.
Scary really. I dont know exactly what theyre training regimens were, but they are both as good examples as anyome can find of "born punchers" and considering their time and era, I'm all but sure heavy resistance training didnt factor into their training regimens as it commonly does today. Those two could have seriously hurt, maimed, or killed guys with that added explosiveness and functional strength that they would have gained had they incorporated HRT prominently into their regimens. Excellent shouts and hypothetical scenario, as always. Youve always been a top notch poster and always creatively come up with good points, analysis, and creative hypothetical scenarios. This just adds to the list. Great job man.
