Heavyweight FOTW #11: A Baer Bonanza

I just got around to watching these four videos again.

Schmeling just didn't look "on." It could be Baer's height and reach bothered him and threw him off his game. He had come up through the light-heavy division, and I don't know who the tallest man Schmeling had previously fought, but he probably was not as tall and didn't have anything like the reach Baer had. Schmeling didn't let his right go very often and he always seemed too far away to land it effectively. He also doesn't show his usual stamina. I think it just one of those times when a guy just doesn't have it that day, as happens in all sports. Great pitchers being bombed out in the first inning. Great quarterbacks throwing a bunch of interceptions and looking like duds. Great golfers double or triple bogeying and going way over par. It happens.

Carnera--a big clumsy guy with fair boxing ability who won fights because he was 260+ lbs. when the top "big" men were 210 or so. Baer was the next biggest top fighter. Carnera's only punches seemed to be his jab and a right uppercut. Baer looked wide open for a right cross but Primo didn't have one.

Braddock--another mediocre in all regards fighter. The point that Baer might have thrown the fight is well taken. He really doesn't seem to be trying much of the time and misses punches by absurd margins. The best that can be said for Braddock is that he was tall for the era, seemed pretty durable, and was giving his all.

Louis--a class fighter in a dud era.

My overall reaction is what a hit the color line era put on the heavyweight division. Baer, Braddock, and Carnera are champions? Even Schmeling didn't look like much on this film, but does look better in his other filmed fights. The 1915 to 1937 period is the pits and after Dempsey and Tunney retired, there was very little left, and even Tunney had been basically a light-heavyweight. Dempsey was considered for decades a super-great, but if any era was the real weakest era it was the two decades between Johnson and Louis.

 

My reaction on the theory that Baer tanked the Braddock fight.

I never even thought of it until it was brought up on this thread but the film certainly raises the issue and it makes sense.

With Baer such an overwhelming favorite, a betting coup was ballpark.

It is also interesting that this fight set up the big money match between Baer and Louis, which brought back the million dollar gate, so making that match would have been in the promoter's interest.

Plus, there was the boxing politics. The powers that be might have wanted to derail Louis. Baer was the most likely guy to pull it off. But they would not have wanted in 1935 to risk defending the championship against Louis, so Baer losing the title freed him for this big non-title fight. I wonder if Louis would ever have gotten a title shot if international politics hadn't entered the picture and made Schmeling an even less desirable alternative.

I agree with the opinion that Sharkey appears to have been putting out his best against Carnera compared to how Baer looks against Braddock.

 

I really doubt the Braddock fight was a fix.

For one thing if the plan was to use Baer to derail Louis, you'd think they'd set it up for Baer to atleast have a good shot at winning.

It was a clown, who relied on exceptional physical gifts, and especially power, versus someone utterly determined, who you'd need to hit with a sledgehammer to knock down. Add in him not taking his opponent seriously, and it's no wonder. Baer was doing a lot of the same stuff against Primo too.

 

The idea that Baer threw the fight is errant nonsense .

Baer broke his right hand during the fight, and possibly his left as well.

This is confirmed by multiple contemporary sources.

 

Not only is that confirmed, but didn't it later came out that he hurt one or both of his hands in training, and he decided to go through with the fight anyway because he took Braddock so lightly? I am not presenting this as a defense of Baer's overall performance against Braddock, but only as a defense against the allegations that he threw the fight. I have little patience for Baer as a fighter, but he had a winning personality, I'll give him that. Probably afforded a lot of sports fans a bit of comic relief from the hardships they were enduring from the Great Depression.

 

Baer vs Schmelling

Baer needs to hold and hit as soon as the fight starts also grab opponents arms and clinch with his own arms....when he does get room to punch he may have had a couple and completely throws wind mills off balance with not thought process behind them. Action slows in one round and hands low as usual and gets rocked then proceeds to hold and hit again .Every time he throws a body shot he leaves his face total exposed and proceeds to get hit. The video is sped up to round 4............no meaningful jab and creeps back and tries an elbow ,it misses,he then gets hit with huge right and actually throws decent shots against ropes.

Baer continues to load up right hands at the WAIST ( lol )

@9:33 he actually lands a decent combo which really isn't hard to do because Max S.isn't really throwing anything and hes leaning on Baer the entire time making the fight easier for him because he CANT box right. @9:39 Baer lands a huge right while Schmelling is on the ropes ,if it was a pitch it would have been in the stands., no technique whatsoever . Max B. continues to land decent shots ,neither knows what defense is as to what we understand it because no one leans in or walks in with hands DOWN anymore..........

@10:55 Baer lands another huge left to Schmelling who has his hands down by his side. Neither fighter knows how to put a one /two together and work shots behind a jab the bell rings.

Round 7 begins and Baer lands a over the shoulder right but takes a shot in return because he cant do two things at once which is block and throw a punch. Good back and forth at about 11:40

Baer eats a huge left at 12:05 walks right into it like he was sleep walking .

round 9. Baer delivers a few nice inside hooks in the clinch.........

Fast forward to round 10. Baer catches Schmelling with a huge right followed up with a 20 plus combo that lands ( 3 back hands )and knocks him down with a huge right and finishes him off with another right when he gets up.

My assessment is Baer is lucky he has height and reach advantage and a good work engine ,he got better as fight went on but that's not really saying much because Schmelling fought a terrible fight ,which he was basically begging to lose. Defense is so primitive by both and no one knows how to masterfully work a stratedgy . its more like rockem sockem with very little action when its not a random flurry by either , a lot of leaning on each other .

I might review the others, my sides are killing me right now.......forgot how bad these fights really are ( yes I understand theyre great for historical purposes. and needed to progress the sport. ) but this fight is a great example of how ridiculous other eras are ridiculed for not knowing how to fight . lol

 

This is well taken criticism.

I have no proof other than suspicion after watching the film about the fight being a tank job from Baer. It is a case of assuming the conclusion.

It reminds me of an old Columbo episode I just watched in which an old chess champion falls into a huge garbage disposal machine. Columbo suspects his opponent pushed him in. The garbage disposal automatically shut itself off if a large bulk fell into it. The opponent, being deaf, did not notice the machine shutting itself off. Columbo gets the opponent into the basement and redoes shutting off the garbage disposal which the deaf man does not notice, and then triumphantly announces that only a deaf man could have been the murderer. But, to me, Columbo only proved the opponent was deaf. The chess master was an old man with advanced diabetes and a bad heart who was on several serious cardiac meds. Suffering a dizzy spell and accidentally falling into the garbage disposal was certainly not out of the question. So starting with the assumption of foul play ends up providing proof of foul play only for someone who makes the original assumption of foul play.

So with Baer against Braddock, but having read several posts on other threads of the Carnera KO of Sharkey being an obvious fix, my main gripe would be that the films offer a lot more support for Baer tanking it than Sharkey tanking it.

There also seems to be better motives for the powers that be in boxing to want Baer to lose than there was necessarily for them to want Sharkey to lose. Motive doesn't prove guilt, though.

 

I very much doubt that any fighter in history, has voluntarily relinquished the undisputed heavyweight title.

In Baer's case the well documented hand injuries explain his performance, if not entirely excuse it.

 

Honestly, if you think Baer looks 5 to 6 inches taller than Schmeling you're simply not qualified to make any judgment comment on any footage.
I suggest you book yourself an eye sight test. Maybe a brain scan too.

 

I just re-watched the fight. Baer certainly throws his right a great deal. He misses often, but lands also, and there is a ton a body punches.

The left being broken might be the more plausible as he paws with his jab or simply puts it out to measure distance, but he threw a left hook also.

Are punches to the ribs or scapula less painful than punches to the jaw?

It really seems the bigger problem for Baer is that Braddock has some lateral movement, which neither Schmeling nor Carnera showed. Schmeling didn't move at all. Carnera moved straight back. Braddock simply walks sideways, but it worked against Baer.

If he had broken hands, why he would accept a fight with Louis within three months is hard to understand. I don't think any physician would consider that enough time for a broken bone to completely heal. And while it is very plausible that he held Braddock cheap, he and his management had to know Louis was another kettle of fish.

I didn't discuss Baer, but while he was a big, strong guy, he had almost no defensive skills, and really seems to be an arm puncher more often than not against not only Braddock, but Schmeling and Carnera also. Within all those looping punches from out of the bleachers, he occasionally threw a crisp right cross.

 

youre pretty tough on them?

 

Baer’s performance vs Braddock is pitiful the above poster makes a fair point, Braddock did use lateral movement which might be the reason. Baer just doesn’t look very good in the fight. Barely trying. Schmeling did attack him in a straight line and was aggressive in their fight making him a target all night for Baer.
My opinion of Baer has declined watching his videos. Primo was clearly injured by the first knockdown against Baer (although not really hurt from the punch itself) and it still took Baer 10 more rounds to get Primo out of the ring.
I disagree with the era being complerely bad, both Sharkey and Schmeling impress me in a lot of the footage available of them and both have quality wins by any measure.
I do believe that both Baer and Carnera were more products of being average to poor fighters that were able to compete by having sheer size and weight on the fighters of the era. Their physical dimensions covered many of their flaws for a time. With Dempsey becoming so wildly popular generating million dollar gates, that must of inspired many people to try their hand at boxing and then when the Great Depression hit, it was a clearly a way to escape the ghetto. I think thise facts created a solid talent pool. But you also get the sideshows in that environment too.

 

I'm sure you've done so before, but could I please see these sources and medical injuries that were so wildly reported. Even if so, how dos that excuse his performance? We've seen this happen to other fighters, and they look VASTLY different. Let's say they broke their left, they just don't use it that much and use their other hand more. In other words, their still throwing punches and trying, just not as much or maybe as consistent. Here, Maxie Poo isn't really throwing much of anything at all, and simply grinning and laughing most of the time. Further, if he hurt his hand during the fight, why did he act the same way prior to it being hurt? From the opening bell, he was grinning and laughing, not throwing punches to retain the HW championship of the world. How do you explain that?

 

No it was definitely his right.

Baer was advised to postpone his fight with Louis, but he decided to risk it, because it offered him a quick road back to the title.

You can argue it either way as to what state his hands were in for the Louis fight, but he definitely broke it in the Braddock fight.

 

Where are all these reports please, and, why was he smiling and grinning most of the time, and when he would throw a punch it was a telegraphed haymaker? When people hurt their hand, they stop throwing stuff with it regularly but try other stuff more. Here, we have him trying nothing, from the opening bell till the end... it looked the same. It's not like he hurt his hand HERE and then started acting that way, he acted that way from the jump.