Wladimir Klitschko Retires - Where Does He Rank ?

favour him over liston foreman based on what?

 

Give me a break. Vitali reigns above Wlad, because losing to Byrd and grandpa Lewis is better than going 64-3 by the age of 40?

Ali outside top 5, because he lost to Norton? Wonder what your top 10 looks like....

 

I will stick pretty close to this, but rank him at 6 right now

 

Will be easier to assess once he's been retired for a little bit longer and we can give some better context to the losses to Fury and Joshua (although safe to say, neither of them are a disgrace under the circumstances). But as of right now, my feeling is that Wlad deserves to be knocking on the door of a top ten, but not quite making it in. Something like #12.

The pros are that he has excellent longevity, probably scores fairly well (though nowhere near the top) in hypothetical head-to-heads and generally fought everyone he could who deserved a shot once he was at the top of the division (more on that in a minute). I guess my gripe is that, although he held world titles of one kind or another from 2000 to 2015 (the odd gap here and there, of course), his claim to being the best Heavyweight on the planet was a shaky one for much of that time.

2000-04: Lewis was the main man, and Wlad was getting splattered by Sanders and Brewster. Vitali's loss to Lewis in 2003 probably earned him more kudos than Wladimir had received for any of his victories to that point.

2004-08: The absolute doldrum days of the Heavyweight division. The pits, truly. Wladimir was probably the most highly-regarded of the alphabet titlists, what with Vitali retired at this point. But that's not saying much when the other belts are being passed around amongst Ruiz, Valuev, Briggs, Liakhovich, Maskaev, Peter etc. Even so, he hadn't yet unified any titles or convinced anyone that he was anything even approaching great. The Puritty, Sanders and Brewster defeats were still fresh in the memory and used as a stick to beat him.

2008-12: Now things certainly started picking up for Wladimir (and the division in general) here. Wins his first unification bout with Ibragimov. Outclasses Chagaev for the Ring title. Showcases his improved confidence by hammering Peter where he'd been decked three times and forced to fight defensively against him before. Takes care of the exciting Cruiserweight stepping up in Haye for the WBA. His overall level of performance and dominance is much higher than in his early championship days and even his biggest critics are forced to admit that he can fight and would present a decent argument for most other Heavyweights in history.

There's one problem - his big brother returning. Now I don't hold it against them for never fighting. I'd take exactly the same stance if I was in that situation. It's very unfortunate for both of them (particularly Wladimir in this case). But while Wladimir was cleaning out the rest of the division as best he could, there always remained this nagging doubt that, defending the WBC title, there was a man who most people thought would just be too tough, nasty and strong for him had the ever met, and would have beaten him. Certainly, that seems to be the impression I got during those years from most fans: Wlad had more talent and the better resume, but Vitali's nasty streak, chin and own decent power (Wlad, in comparative terms, had the chin of a poet) would make him the winner if they ever met. It's a unique situation for any Heavyweight champion, but one which still harms Wladimir a little in these kind of debates, unfair as that may sound.

2012-15: Vitali slows down and quits. Wladimir finally, without any ifs, buts and maybes, is the undisputed best Heavyweight in the world by every single measurement. Good wins against Povetkin and Pulev (particularly the latter, as it showed that Wladimir could be exciting and ruthless when he wanted to be), but usurped by Fury and stopped by Joshua. I can give him a pass for these to some extent, of course, especially the latter one as he went out on his shield and came close to pulling it off. But at the same time they do feed the argument that he relied on bullying smaller or technically average guys - when he fought men who combined the two, he was second-best. A bit of devil's advocate there, but you get my drift.

Guys like Frazier and Holyfield were only 'the man' at Heavyweight for short, inconsistent periods too, but I just don't think Wladimir has the quality of wins to go above someone like that, and he had his vulnerabilities exposed a little too often for my liking. Individually I could maybe find an angle to put him ahead of a Marciano, a Dempsey, a Liston etc., but I think it's too much of a stretch to give him the nod against all three of them at once for that #10 spot.

Just my instinct at the moment and it could change in coming years. As I said at the start, it's easier to rate fighters once the dust has properly settled on their careers.

 

I put him at 6 on mine

 

he can be squeezed into top 15 now for sure, but as low as 20 too.

 

Out of interest, fella, who do you have in front of and behind him, roughly?

 

He posted it right here on page 2 for all to see

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/top-10-heavyweights.626535/

I got him at 6 as well

1 Louis
2 Ali
3 Holmes
4 Lewis
5 Foreman
6 Wlad

7 Frazier
8 Tyson
9 Holyfield

10 Marciano
11 Johnson

12 Liston
13 Dempsey
14 Bowe
15 Vitali

 

It's all on this thread mate
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/top-10-heavyweights.626535/

 

....Yeah, not my smartest question! Thanks.

 

thanks for the interesting thread,in my opinion hes definately top ten and would be difficult h2h in his prime for anybody.

 

top 10 easily for me. Longevity and sustained greatness is crazy in sports. anyone can have a flash in the pan great couple of fights but great athletes stay great for a long time. Holmes, Wlad wont ever get the credit they deserve because of it:

1.) Joe Louis
2.) Rocky Marciano
3.) Lennox Lewis
4.) Larry Holmes
5) Wladimir Klitschko
6.) Muhammad Ali
7.) George Foreman
8.) Evander Holyfield
9.) Jack Dempsey
10.) Vitali Klitschko

 

Holmes does get the credit as he is a recognized Top 10 ATG Heavyweight, even Top 5 in most lists.Wlad is a different story. Then again it is hard to Believe that you rank Wlad above Ali.

 

sorry brosef. i think ali is the single most overrated athlete in any sport ever. yea yea, here it comes 'ur not a boxing fan lala'. never liked him. thought his style against foreman was kinda eh. he won, but still. people act like every fight he was in was against some future aTG like he never fought bums. he fought a lot of them. and everyone acts like he never legit lost...eh...lost several times. so. ill stand by my list.

and no, i dont think holmes gets the credit he deserves. i know plenty of non boxing fans who know the names lennox lewis, klitschko, tyson, holyfield, ali, frazer, etc. Holmes and the 80's is always this big mystery to most peeps. i have to say 'he was the guy between ali and tyson'