Packey McFarland Vs Mike Gibbons

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Apr 2, 2019.


  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    From boxrec
    • Newspaper decision for Gibbons from Grantland Rice (New York Tribune), Walter St. Denis (New York Globe), Jack Curley (New York American), Robert Edgren (New York Evening World), Brooklyn Eagle, Brooklyn Standard Union, Newark Sunday Call, Jack Malaney (Boston Journal), Associated Press (7-3 by rounds).
    • Newspaper decision for McFarland from J.G. Vreeland (New York Morning World), Charley White (New York World), New York Herald, Eddy Carter (New York Sun), Mal Doyle (New York Press), Damon Runyon (New York American), New York Call, Abe Attell (New York Evening Telegram), Ring W. Lardner (Chicago Tribune), Bill Foreman (Chicago Herald), Nate Lewis (Chicago Examiner), Ed W. Smith (Chicago American), William H. Rocap (Philadelphia Public Ledger), Philadelphia Inquirer, George R. Holmes (United Press; 4-1-5 by rounds), Joe O’Neil (Los Angeles Times), Jimmy De Forest (Asbury Park Evening Press), Jack Lait (Minneapolis Tribune), Morning Oregonian (Portland), Allentown Democrat, United Press (another round-by-round report in Los Angeles Times).
    • A draw from P.T. Knox (New York Evening Telegram), Bat Masterson (New York Morning Telegraph), New York Times, Tom Andrews (Milwaukee Leader), J.H. Ritchie (Minneapolis Journal).
    • Billy Joh, the referee, expressed his private opinion that it should have been a draw. Willie Ritchie said it was "about a draw, with the shade, if any, to McFarland."
    • New York Press report was not signed, but a secondary source mentioned that Mal Doyle (previously a boxing manager in St. Louis, MO) reported for that newspaper. The same secondary source listed Eddy Carter as the author of the New York Sun report, which was also unsigned. Boston Journal had its boxing writer Jack Malaney at ringside. Philadelphia Inquirer had its sporting editor at ringside. Los Angeles Times had its own reporter, Joe O'Neill, at ringside, and also printed a United Press round-by-round report that was completely different from more common United Press round-by-round report. (That one was identical to round-by-round printed in the Brooklyn Standard Union, so either it was written by the Standard-Union reporter, or the Standard-Union borrowed the United Press's round-by-round report in addition to its main report--which was probably written by Bill Rafter, sporting editor.) The Portland (OR) Morning Oregonian 's report was unsigned, but was different from other reports listed and explicitly stated that its author was at "front row seat" at ringside. Newark (NJ) Sunday Call had their staff correspondent at ringside. Abe Attell had a long write-up in the New York Evening Telegram, describing his impressions of the bout, so it's listed among the above newspaper decisions. The Brooklyn Daily Eagle 's report was unsigned, but was probably penned by sporting editor Abe Yager. Allentown Democrat and Allentown Leader (Pennsylvania) had their reporters at the bout, but only the Democrat printed it's own version, the Leader just quoting several New York newspapers. Boxing trainer Jimmy De Forest reported for a New Jersey newspaper Asbury Park Evening Press. Minneapolis Morning Tribune on Monday carried two reports - by W. S. Forman and Chicago playright Jack Lait.
     
  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Robert Edgren, and comments from Gibbons and McFarland
    The evening world., September 13, 1915, Final Edition, Page 8, Image 8
    https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...asetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

    Grantland Rice
    New-York tribune., September 12, 1915, SPORTING SECTION, Image 11
    https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...asetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1
    New-York tribune., September 12, 1915, Page 2, Image 12
    https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...asetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

    Comment on the disagreement
    New-York tribune., September 13, 1915, Page 13, Image 13
    https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...asetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

    Critical comment on the fight
    The sun., September 13, 1915, Page 8, Image 8
    https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...asetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

    The sun., September 12, 1915, Second Section Sporting and Automobiles, Image 13
    https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...asetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1
     
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  3. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Probably the most skilled 'early' bout caught on film.
     
  4. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Buffalo Commercial sporting writer scored for Gibbons.
    Joe McNeil in NY World scored for McFarland. As did Joe Vila in NY Evening Sun.
    R.I. Goldberg of NY Evening Mail scored it a draw. Matt Hinkel, Cleveland referee, thought it was a draw as well.
    So the newspaper count so far is 23-10-7 in favor of Packey.
     
  5. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Bits from a few papers
    The Columbia Republican., September 14, 1915, Page 6, Image 6
    http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lc...asetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

    George R Holmes
    The Pokeepsie evening enterprise., September 13, 1915, Page 2, Image 2
    http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lc...asetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

    The Ogdensburg journal., September 13, 1915, Page 5, Image 5
    http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lc...asetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=range&page=1

    The Brooklyn Daily Eagle gives it to Gibbons and calls the bout disappointing. It said Gibbons was overtrained, and McFarland was "slow and heavy".
     
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  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    It's interesting that a lot of the papers were critical of it
     
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  7. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I've seen a couple comments about them having to make 147, though boxrec lists them both as heavier. Do you know what happened with the weights?
     
  8. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    The Standard Union says "As a boxing contest is was fast, but as a fight it was slow and lacking aggressiveness."
     
  9. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    The newspaper accounts on this fight are beyond puzzling. I have most of the fight. 30 minutes give or take. Gibbons was the aggressor, threw more, landed more, and landed the harder punches. Its mystifying how anyone could score this fight for McFarland. It literally went exactly how you would expect a fight between a bigger active great fighter and a smaller, inactive great fighter, with Gibbons pressuring and asserting his will in order to keep Packey from getting into a groove.
     
  10. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    For some reason Boxrec has used the unofficial weights (which were estimates) not the official weigh in. The contract stipulated the men had to weigh in at or below 147 at 3 o'clock on the day of the fight, which they did. Boxrec using the higher weight would be akin to them using the HBO weights taken in the dressing room before a fight.
     
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  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    And I had you down as a firm believer in the merits of "newspaper consensus".
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    According to Rhas al Guhl neither of them were anything special.
     
  13. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Certainly nowhere near as special as the Great Grigorian!
     
  14. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Very odd situation. I mean Abe Attell etc. must've seen something. The pre-fight expectations maybe coloured it, but you wouldn't think to that extent.

    Do you think It's possible some of McFarland's slappy punches didn't show up as well on the film?

    I might try comparing the round by round fight report with the film on YT
     
  15. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Studying this film, I know, I'm watching greatness unfold before my eyes! Because the boxers in question are Gibbons and McFarland… two of the finest technicians of the early 20th century. I also know, that this is an exhibition of extraordinary skills because… well, because it's Gibbons and McFarland!

    Now I'm asking myself... if I didn't know who the fighters were, and their reputation, would I still be reasonably impressed?
     
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