John Sullivan In The Modern Era

He'd be a cruiserweight, known for an extremely awkward, hard to beat style. He'd be hit more than in his prime, for one thing (due to stylistic difference), and his knockout power would not be as telling, but the combination of the strange old-school style, power, feinting ability, roughness on the inside (where most fighters want to rest) and vicious tenacity in the early rounds would be enough to get him very close to the world title, if not grab it.

One x factor is ref leniency.

 

As a raw athletic talent he was up there with the all time greats of any era. At cruiserweight I doub't that anybody could give him much of an argument.

If he takes on the big boys then a lot depends on the details of his style. I do think that he would bring some things to the table that they had never seen before especialy in terms of feinting.

 

Today Sullivan would be a heavyweight, no doubt, and he'd knock most of these guys out without problem. He mostly weighed 200-230 pounds, at his best was in the low 200s, and only got below that for fights to the finish where he might have to fight for 3 hours, so he intentionally got down to be efficient, and also when you are running 10-20 miles a day and training for 2 plus hours a day, you tend to lose weight. If the lard asses fighting today did the same, they would slim down too. Also, if Sully had the nutrition and weight training they have today, he'd be a rock solid 230 with no problem.

 

With his rather dissolute training practices, I could see Sullivan going the same way as many modern contenders in trying to substitute weights and a little sparring for real training. :think

 

A couple of questions since you have done a lot of research on Sullivan.

1. How would you describe Sullivan's style. I have never quite got my head round it from what I have read. Who would be the best comparison.

2. Sullivan's power is legendary. would he consider him to be one of the major league puncher's of heavyweight history.

3. Evaluating his pre Kilrain competition is hard due to incomplete records. What conclusions have you reached on the quality of his oposition over this period.

 

Read John L. Sullivan: The Career of the First Gloved Heavyweight Champion. I assure you that you will not be disappointed, and your questions will be answered much better than I can do in a short post. By reading fight by fight accounts, you will get a feel for his style and skills, which are also specifically discussed. You will also get plenty of discussion of how fast and powerful he was, as well as the experience level of his opponents. It's all there. Just ask anyone who has read it.

Let's put it this way. Picture a sport that exists, but is considered a fringe sport. Then imagine a guy who comes along and is so phenomenal, that everyone wants to see him. A guy who is so good that he causes an entire sport to raise up in its popularity to become one of the two most popular sports in the nation. A guy so fantastic that he turns the sport into a lucrative business. A guy so awe-inspiring that people who took little interest in boxing suddenly wanted to watch it. That guy was John L. Sullivan.

 

Bump

 

Since this thread I have read both of Adams biographies of Sullivan, so I will take a run at answering the OP.

I think that Sullivan's best weight was about 195lbs, which would put him fairly comfortably within the cruiserweigth category, and capable of stepping up to heavyweight if he wished.

I suspect that his attacking finishing style would translate well into any era, with very minimal modifications.

There is no reason why he couldn't be highly successful today, but I suspect that his lifestyle and alcoholism would have caught up with him much sooner, in literally any other era.

 

If you could compare his style to anyone or more who do you visualize it being?

 

John L was on the short side for a heavyweight. The skills in his time were not close to modern skills, it's like asking a military Revolutionary war soldier ( USA vs. England ) to swap uniforms and equipment with a world war II soldier on the fly. Each era needed a completely different set of skills to do well in their time, and of course with the evolution of the game, the later is almost always superior to the former.

I try to judge the athlete not the time he participated in. How good would he be with 100 years of advancement?! I'm at the point where thinking a sub 210 pound man would not likely beat modern giants, but there is a CW division, so the question is a good one.

WIth a thin resume, all we have to go on is his power and surprising speed for his frame. How durable was he? Hard to say. Did he had a good left hand? Not really, but he had a cannon for a high hand. I think he would be best at cruiserweight as the fighters would not be much heavier / taller / longer and equipped with a skilled jab with a 6" +inch reach advantage for Sully to solve.

I think Sullivan could be a champion at Crusierweight ( I'd pick Usyk to beat him on points ), with some refinement in technique. Adam's reply is interesting. Sure there are some fat heavies who don't train hard today. He's correct. However, Sullivan had the same problem in his time too! A case of the pot calling the kettle black, the money and life habits of the man named John L Sullivan would not magically transform into a grinder / clean living type in modern times in terms of training.

 

What are the minimum and maximum weights for CURSIERWIGHT? LOL Are they the same as for CURIERWEIGHT?LOL

 

Fighters like Sullivan do much better in the modern era than boxers such as Corbett.

Decently sized (for cruiser), natural fighting athleticism, obvious clinch skills, extreme tenacity, power and surprisingly good straight puncher.

Adapted to this eras rules etc. He'd be a force I reckon.

 

Probably a cruiser and he wouldn’t even get a title shot.

Assuming we’re just transporting him a time machine.

That man with those intangibles growing up, living and learning and training today? He’d likely be a formidable 12 round fighter. He was legitimately tough and could punch. Those are pretty important attributes that are transferable regardless of era.

 

"At cruiserweight I doub't that anybody could give him much of an argument."
"Today Sullivan would be a heavyweight, no doubt, and he'd knock most of these guys out without problem"

So you guys think, a cigar-smoking alcoholic from the 1880s would rule the world today - based on contemporary reports by journalists, who could not even imagine, what boxing would look like 100+ years into the future?