John Sullivan In The Modern Era

Right and you are a expert by not watching any of his fights right? How many fights have you seen this guy fight? Were you alive to see him fight in person casual fan? I gave a factual stat. 26 of his opponents were making their pro debuts. I gave you a fact casual. Boxers wore smaller gloves back then. I gave you a fact. The boxing doing that era was primitive compared to modern fights. So go back to reading books that were written back in 1900 and think you know a darn thing about boxing.

 

If watching his fights is what you consider the key information, then the correct answer is you don't have a clue, not that he'd lose to any middleweight since the '60s. But I guess Motte and Bailey fallacies are more fun.

 

Right amazing logic you have there. You never seen any footage of him and you weren't alive to see him fight. But he is great and could compete against modern fighters because of what? Because you read he was great in a book? Typical uniformed casual fan. You know what else is a fact casual fan? There is footage of guys like Jackson Johnson, Sam Langford and other fighters who turned pro a little bit after Sullivan. Guess what? These guys were extremely crude and unskilled by modern standards. Fainting 20 times in a row and then rushing at your opponent with 4 ounce horse hair gloves only worked in that era.

So my intelligence point still stand. Sullivan couldn't even beat somebody like Butterbean if he fought in this era and no half way decent 160 pound for the last half a century would lose to somebody with that primitive skill set. Maybe ask a person who knows about boxing to explain this too you and when you understand what you are talking about get back to me. Until then I won't waste any more time with a arrogant casual like you. Bye.

 

2/10

Try reading the posts you are responding to next time.

 

Straight out of a time machine good ol Sully is getting KO'ed bad against any top 50 Heavy, that is the way it is.

IMO, he would be a Light Heavy and he "might", again, straight out of time machine, luck out here and there, but top level he would be seeing stars ........against Heavies he is strictly seeing stars while getting counted out.

For comparison, Bert Cooper fought some bare knuckle under ground tough guy fighter, supposedly undefeated, for fun and the fun lasted seconds......I put Sullivan on that level......a un competitive affair lasting less then a round.

 

When asking questions like this what are you asking?

In this situation do the powers that be pluck him up in his prime and set him down in the modern day?

Or is this question asking what damage he’d do if he was born in this era and was raised with all the advantages the boxers of our era have?

The second one seems to be a more fair way to measure the man’s athletic prowess and talent.

 

Boxrec is poor source for records of fighters during that era, an exceedingly poor source.

And you do realize that one of the commentators on this thread who is very much in favor of Sullivan's chances today is a guy who literally "wrote the book" on John L. Two books, in fact.

 

Sullivan was a tough guy. An intimidating guy. That's about it.

Nevermind all the hypothetical crap about if he had modern training, diet, etc... That would make him a different person/fighter in that case.

Put Sullivan in a time machine and bring him here as he was.
He gets clowned and stopped by almost anyone who takes boxing seriously.

I envision bare knuckle fighter Joe Savage, who was easily destroyed by Bert Cooper, would beat Sullivan.

 

Lol again clueless casual fan. Did you see any of his fights? Were you old enough to see him fight live? Do you realize boxing from that era is totally different from boxing today? You do realize sports evolve right? You do realize compared to modern boxers these guys skills were primitive. You do realize you have no proof that show anything besides Sullivan fighting 26 fighters who were making their pro debuts right? You do realize that I don't care who wrote a book about what right? You do realize that you don't know anything about boxing and I don't even know why you are a member of this forum right? If you think a figher from the 1800's could compete skill wise with modern boxers then maybe you should just close your account and find some sport that is easier to follow.

 

Agree with everything you typed besides Sullivan being intimidating. Who did he intimidate? 3rd rate hacks from his era? Being tough when 26 of your opponents never had a pro bout before isn't really saying much.

But yeah any modern boxing who takes boxing seriously would destroy Sullivan.

 

You gleefully proclaim ignorance on the subject of Sullivan. That is not a great foundation upon which to build an argument.

By the way, Mr. Boxrec Warrior, if you think Paddy Ryan made his pugilistic debut in November, 1886, you really are out of your depth even commenting on this subject.

 

Surely to god you are not going to compare somebody like Joe Savage, to the bare knuckle champions when the sport had a global talent pool!

 

There's not much evidence Joe Savage was ever really "the champion of underground bareknuckle boxing" in England anyway.
He was probably just another "hard man" bouncer type, of which there are thousands.
His real gift was for self-promotion ..... and I wish him all the best.

 

No worries, nobody is taking this guy seriously. Well maybe one guy, but still, no worries.

 

Exactly. Marciano was in better shape. Rocky's intangibles and chin were tested more than Sullivan's ever was. He clearly beat better competition. I tend to think he hit harder too.

Another poster mentioned Sullivan was the bigger man. Only marginally so, you could say he hand longer arms and more fat.