Pacquiao or Armstrong

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Apr 11, 2019.


Page 1 of 6
  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,131
    44,900
    Mar 3, 2019
    Out of these two, who was better at jumping weight?

    Would Pacquiao have been able to be a 3 weight champion in the 30s? Would he have won the middleweight title?

    Would Armstrong have been an 8 weight champion today? With the day before weigh ins could he have moved up from Flyweight to Super Welterweight?

    I tend to believe that Armstrong would be able to weigh in at 8 weights and get that distinction, and probably top Pacquiao by going for 9 or 10.

    I like Pacquiao he's one of my favourite fighters of all time, but I doubt he is able to blitz people like Ross or Ambers the way he did people like Cotto or Barrera. I think he could get Lightweight and Featherweight but he'd have problems at Welterweight and definitely not the middleweight

    Discuss!
     
    George Crowcroft, Apr 11, 2019
    George Crowcroft, Apr 11, 2019
    #1
    mark ant and The Ogdoad like this.
  2. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,253
    2,301
    Jan 4, 2005
    Armstrong led with his hands on his chest face first. He would get wrecked today.

    Had it been allowed, Pac would have simultaneously held FW, LW and WW belts at the same time too.

    His fight night weight never really changed much from FW to WW.
     
    dangerousity, Apr 11, 2019
    dangerousity, Apr 11, 2019
    #2
    Birmingham likes this.
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,131
    44,900
    Mar 3, 2019
    Who would wreck him today?
     
    George Crowcroft, Apr 11, 2019
    George Crowcroft, Apr 11, 2019
    #3
    mark ant likes this.
  4. Pimp C

    Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

    123,040
    35,145
    Jun 23, 2005
    Armstrong! He's a top 2 ATG:deal:
     
    Pimp C, Apr 11, 2019
    Pimp C, Apr 11, 2019
    #4
    Braindamage, blackbolt396, 22JM and 1 other person like this.
  5. Perkin Warbeck

    Perkin Warbeck Boxing aficionado Full Member

    12,287
    26,787
    Nov 4, 2017
    Probably Henry Armstrong.

    I think Armstrong is likely one of the top 3 P4P boxers of all time. Pacquiao probably belongs in the top 15, possibly top 10.

    But the truth is, it's impossible to compare top fighters from different eras with any degree of certainty.
     
    Perkin Warbeck, Apr 11, 2019
    Perkin Warbeck, Apr 11, 2019
    #5
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  6. Tomato(e) Can

    Tomato(e) Can Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao. banned Full Member

    6,300
    5,643
    Feb 19, 2018
    Pacquiao. Armstrong was bigger and a much more powerfully built guy. Pacquiao's achievements are more impressive because he's the size of Stranger Things.
     
    Tomato(e) Can, Apr 11, 2019
    Tomato(e) Can, Apr 11, 2019
    #6
  7. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,976
    19,012
    Oct 4, 2016
    Armstrong is the better fighter by far,,Henry didn't have the pharmacy access that Manny had
     
    Reinhardt, Apr 11, 2019
    Reinhardt, Apr 11, 2019
    #7
    Contro, MVC! and Pimp C like this.
  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,131
    44,900
    Mar 3, 2019
    But does Pacquiao do what Armstrong did? I don't think he does, but I do think that Armstrong would be able to be an 8 weight champion
     
    George Crowcroft, Apr 11, 2019
    George Crowcroft, Apr 11, 2019
    #8
    Pimp C likes this.
  9. Tomato(e) Can

    Tomato(e) Can Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao. banned Full Member

    6,300
    5,643
    Feb 19, 2018
    Pacquiao could. Armstrong no. They wouldn't have tape on him back then like they do now. History has never seen a fighter like Pacquiao, but history has seen fighters like Armstrong (Pacquiao being one of them).

    BTW, Armstrong started at featherweight... Do you really see Armstrong competing against the likes of Froch/Ward/Kessler/Abraham?!
     
    Tomato(e) Can, Apr 11, 2019
    Tomato(e) Can, Apr 11, 2019
    #9
  10. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

    27,131
    44,900
    Mar 3, 2019
    Armstrong was a very unique fighter, his only ATG equivalent is Robert Duran style wise. The tape on Armstrong is actually pretty decent (considering its almost a century old). Armstrong is much more proven against ATGs. Pacquiao lost to Floyd, Armstrong beat Ross and Ambers. Also you say history never saw a fighter like Pacquiao. In terms of going up in weight Sam Langford was much more impressive than Pacquiao, moving from LW to HW. But in terms of speed, power and angles, Sugar Ray Robinson and Leonard did it better.

    He fought in the days of same day weigh in, hence less time to rehydrate, Armstrong would've been able to cut weight down to flyweight. Meaning he'd have to go up to 154 (I think, CBA working it out)
    That's also why Pacquiao would roughly be a featherweight in the 30s
     
    George Crowcroft, Apr 11, 2019
    George Crowcroft, Apr 11, 2019
    #10
    Pimp C likes this.
  11. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    29,769
    8,298
    Feb 11, 2005
    I think Pac's trajectory is similar to Jimmy McLarnin's.

    Armstrong's ability to unify at featherweight, and then win the welterweight and lightweight championships within the space of two calendar years ensures a higher ATG ranking on my list. But I don't think Armstrong could have made it any lower than featherweight, so we're probably looking at a similar run to Mayweather's.

    It's worth noting that Armstrong's defense was a lot better than Hatton's on the way in, so I think a fighter with his particular set of skills probably could bag a championship without that much difficulty.
     
    Drew101, Apr 11, 2019
    Drew101, Apr 11, 2019
    #11
    mark ant, George Crowcroft and LANCE99 like this.
  12. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    18,100
    15,580
    Dec 20, 2006
    Armstrong! I don’t think their talent difference is as huge as it will get made out to be, both here in general forum as well as classic! Armstrong is a top 5 ATG while Manny might end up in the 25-30 neighborhood.

    The main difference is Armstrong did this during the original 8 divisions, while Pac came along in the bast ard division era. Armstrong became world champ when the word champ meant something. Pac won ABC belts and seldom unified them which would be the equivalent.

    Different eras and different context but Armstrong’s looks to be the more solid and proven credentials
     
    PhillyPhan69, Apr 11, 2019
    PhillyPhan69, Apr 11, 2019
    #12
    Pimp C, Braindamage and George Crowcroft like this.
  13. blackbolt396

    blackbolt396 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,146
    653
    Feb 13, 2012
    Top 5 for damn sure.
     
    blackbolt396, Apr 11, 2019
    blackbolt396, Apr 11, 2019
    #13
    Pimp C likes this.
  14. Reg

    Reg Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,373
    6,926
    Feb 5, 2016
    Lomachenko
     
    Reg, Apr 11, 2019
    Reg, Apr 11, 2019
    #14
    mark ant likes this.
  15. dangerousity

    dangerousity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,253
    2,301
    Jan 4, 2005
    Pac won the lineal belts which is EXACTLY like what Armstrong did. Beating the man who beat the man.
     
    dangerousity, Apr 11, 2019
    dangerousity, Apr 11, 2019
    #15
Page 1 of 6