Picture of Sonny Liston and Rocky Marciano

Oh ok, is this potential power and theoretical punching ability or actual results because I've yet to see this elite punching ability from Williams......

Please do explain.

 

Moore was better than Terrell. He knocked out #1 rated heavyweight Bob Baker. He beat another #1 rated heavyweight contender Valdes to earn that shot. Charles was still better than Terrell too. He knocked out Wallace and Bob Satterfeild (both rated) very spectacularly to earn outstanding challenger status.

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I have been through Charles entire record in some detail before and Charles was an exclusive lightheavyweight for an incredibly short period. If we are talking above 170 pounds and below 180 pounds Charles only had something like 12 fights from 122 where he and his opponent were both within this bracket. Bivins was above the light heavyweight limit for all but one of their 5 fights. People forget Bivins was rated at heavyweight. That’s just one example.

Agreed.

hmm, Tyson beat what was there, but not many of his challengers were beating elite fighters. Holmes was dug up from retirement. Tubbs, Spinks and Thomas had not beat rated fighters in years. It leaves Berbick, Smith and Tucker as his good wins. Not sure those three really pop open the champagne if you know what I mean. Tyson was the star in each of his fights. Including against Douglas. Who beat him.

knocking them flat on their back helps too. Moore was counted out. Walcott counted out. Louis counted out. Charles was counted out. Layne was counted out...

 

A terrific photo but the angle is a bit off center making Rocky look a bit larger in scale tan he was .. Sonny was a good 2.5" taller with a huge reach advantage and fought at twenty five to thirty pounds heavier .. in the ring I favor Sonny but in the street who the hell knows ? Two hard men for sure ..

 

There is a lot more to go on here than the myth of Cleveland Williams FFS!

 

So? Chin doesn't change how quickly you can KO someone, both landed on him. Also that 'Middleweight' that KO'ed Liston KOed an either 39/41/45 year old Liston depending on sources, also he weighed in at 199, that's a real HW

 

Sometimes I feel like the Marciano brigade does more harm than good. They can come across disingenuous at times. Like, Rocky was short, and would struggle with bigger taller HW.... No, he was perfectly proportioned to get underneath tall fighters. Well Rocky might struggle with a HW with a long reach because he didn't have much length himself... no, Rocky's short arms is what led to his short compact punching power. Well, what about Rocky's slowish movement and being off balance sometimes.... His movement was perfect for not wasting energy, and he didn't have balance issues, that was done intentionally to throw off his foe and create an angle he didn't see coming. Sometimes it's really laughable. Any factual thing you present about Marciano's dimensions, you're a hater, a modernist, and it's actual a positive he was that way not a negative

 

So you know that they landed their best shots on him yeah?

Let's just say he was 70 as it would suit your agenda more hey......

I'm using the dumbass logic that your buddy on here uses, do keep up.

Still that HW was considerably smaller than Liston when he knocked him in to next week.....

 

An older Liston* and Liston's age isn't confirmed. So yes it did suit my argument, but I didn't twist or change any facts
Use your dumbass logic and answer me this
If two punchers met, both of whom, for arguments sake, have equal power, both have been down to smaller opponents, both are roughly as quick as eachother, one has a much longer reach, one is clearly stronger and one is a better boxer who wins?

 

You are getting confused here pal. You have to face the fact that Liston was comatosed.

 

And yet you still didn't answer the question. Liston bullies Marciano and everyone he beat

 

In your mind he does, Liston showed he was a true bully when he quit like a cur.

 

Charles win both were past prime and out of it. Layne did hold nice wins over Satterfield and Walcott and others before Marciano ruined him.

 

Also Charles Louis and Moore are top 25 ATG p4p fighters...unless historians are just hyping the $&@# out of them.

 

But not at the stage of their careers when Marciano got them!

 

When was Baker ranked number 1? Charles had won 2 of his last 4 fights when he fought Marciano.