Heavyweight What If? Would History Have Been Changed Part1?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Apr 19, 2019.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Unlike you ,I have actually been in Havana in April and it is very ,very humid. I don't know what the temperature was when they fought .I do know Willard said it ."was hotter than hell in there", A 37 years old man who had dissipated his body was facing a giant in the best shape of his life. Those are the facts.
    The referee Jack Welch is on record as saying if it had been a 20 rounds contest he would have had no hesitation in raising Johnson's hand.
    Please confine your comments to the thread's subject.
    If you wish to debate other points. make threads about them!
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Once again, you can not say if it was 20 rounds because it was 45 and Willard would have gotten busier sooner if it was 20 rounds. DUH.

    Johnson is from the South part of Texas, He's used to the heat. Everyone was back then as there was no air conditioning. I told you to look up the weather area in Havana, and no it's not very humid in April.

    A little help for you:

    [url]https://www.holiday-weather.com/havana/averages/april/[/url]

    ^^^ Did you read that? End of debate. It was not 100 degrees. That 's BS, just like Johnson saying it was a fix is BS.

    You might have been suffering when you visited the island, but you re old, and with lung issues, so you wrote...A prize fighter in his 30's would not be bothered by a little humidity.

    Willard did better than you probably think. Watch the films before Johnson was hurt in round 25, and you might learn a thing or two. Too bad you won't do this or admit Willard was even in filmed rounds and won some rounds well before the KO.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    As to Willard making his move earlier, if the fight had been 20 rounds,what has to be considered is the fight was scheduled for 45 rounds which meant in effect ,because he had no hope of lasting 135 minutes in that humidity Johnson had to commit himself to stopping Willard.This is what he tried to do,fighting uncharacteristically aggressively Johnson went after Willard ,expending far too much energy trying to stop the giant.If the fight had been scheduled for 20 rounds Johnson,knowing he could stay that limit ,would have had the luxury of fighting his usual safety first fight.He could have conserved his energy and settled for his usual scenario, a points win.
    Havana is hot in April and very humid that is a stone fact,I wasnt the only person to remark on this when I was there.
    Why would you think you know more about the weather in Havana than me? Ive been there you haven't! I didn't have any health problems when I visited Cuba,so that's ruled out too.
    Willard was in the best shape of his life and he stated ,"it was hotter than hell in there",I guess he would know!
    The fighters were in the ring for over an hour and a half and fighting for nearly78 minutes.That is a tough ask for any fighter and especially for one who had abused his body and was 37 and an old man for the ring in the early 1900's.
    Johnson was legitimately knocked out, Sam McVey had to help him to his feet and he said Johnson didn't know quite where he was. The morning afer the fight Johnson went to collect his purse and told the promoter he was beaten fair and square ,he said he never dreamed anyone could survive his attack if he really went after them,that he underestimated Willard's strength and overestimated what he had himself had left.He also disclosed that Willard knocked two of his gold teeth loose and that he swallowed them rather than let the crowd see them on the canvas.
    I think Johnson put up a game, brave fight and was gradually beaten down by a bigger,stronger, fitter ,fresher opponent who was in top shape.
    Johnson congratulated Willard and went down to the harbour to see him off and wish him a safe journey back to the US.

    I wouldn't expect you to give him any credit and its interesting you have only pounced on this one What IF and then just because it involves Johnson," the man you love to hate",you've ignored the rest!

    Johnson left Galveston as a young lad and seldom returned to his birthplace where he was born has no bearing on how he would handle heat and humidity after years of high living and being 37 years old.
    I've never said Willard did not win some rounds prior to the 20th what I have said and Jack Welch the referee stated it is had the fight been 20rounds Johnson would have been the clear winner.
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Lots to pick at here. In the opinion of Jack Welch, Johnson could have gotten up but opted not to! In other words, he called it quits on his back? Do you agree with Welch there?

    Its April in the Caribbean, which I have been to many times. It's not 100 degrees! Why do you buy into these myths, to prop up your wife beating idol? The truth is more like high 70's to mid 80's.

    If the match was only 20 rounds, you like to suggest Johnson would have won it. If it was only 20 rounds, don't you think Willard would have opened up his offense sooner? Sure he would have but I want to read what you think. You might just surprise me with an honest reply on this topic.

    If you watch the films, it was Willard's body shot that badly hurt Johnson in the 25th round. It's on film. The punch took the steam out of Johnson, and Willard went in for the finish in round 26. Willard, by the way, wasn't that young either. Had that body shot not landed, this one could have gone on a lot longer.

    And of course the fix nonsense from Johnson was a lie. Willard won fair in square.
     
  5. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think over 12 rounds well conditioned fighters would fight at a different pace, possibly train different- 15 rounds is a marathon -12 rounds is no walk in the park but 3BIG rounds short of 15
    Julio C.Chavez took out Meldrik Taylor in the 12th had it been 15 it may have been the 14th-15th round- so the better man still wins in all 4 scenario's IMO -sense of urgency prevails
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Show me the primary sourced quote where Welch says this.
    I've already stated Johnsons said Willard won fair and square ,and he admitted it after the fight and again the next morning.
    I haven't suggested anything I've simply asked the forum for their opinions get someone to read it for you!
    My own opinion is Johnson would have won over a 20 rounds distance ,because he would not have had to commit himself to stopping Willard,and because he would have built up a points cushion ,which would have allowed him to conserve his energy better.
    I have the film and have owned it for over 40 years ,why do you continually say watch the film as though I have never seen it? Its totally nonsensical! Wiillard's body shot in the 25 wa s a blow delivered after the first 20 rounds had been fought and ,as such is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
    You need to try and apply some logic to your responses because all you have offered
    so far is a meandering litany of ill thought out, hate induced postulations.
     
  7. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    I'll give it a go.
    I think Louis sets a faster pace right from the get go and forces Conn to start burning those legs out and gets a tight Decision.

    I still got Jack with an early KO. Not as brutal but a 4th rd or so stoppage.

    As long as JJ legs are solid I'll take him by a decision.

    Jess vs Johnson is the toughest for me because I haven't seen any of this since God knows when. To me it all depends on how much pressure Jess puts on out of the gate. If hes on Johnson punching wrestling mauling I think he gets him out of there.
    Just speculation on my part here.