Marciano vs Foreman... What Can The Rock Do?

Forgot to add when going against top competition EVERYONES KO rate lowers or it goes longer because they’re TOP competitors.

 

The first three were extremely young when that happened. Saw young David Tua collaps like a sack of rice against Savon? Leaving Snipes, who was a big atheltic man.
Has Wilder been down since 2010?
BS to compare these with Marciano, who was a very matured fighter by then, getting stunned by a ex-middleweight and a 62% KO-percentage Walcott...AND call that an ATG-chin compared to 220lb men! A luck he didn´t fight long enough to meet Liston...

 

"So much dishonesty."

I won´t bother with your BS anymore. Small CW chinny Walcott would do a rumble today. Please leave me with that garbage and play your own fairytale games.

 

You're full of **** because we all know if Marciano had been dropped (even in an early fight) by 180-190 pound fighters with the same credentials as Sonny Banks, Henry Cooper, Kevin Isaac and Marty Marshall ...... you'd be having a field day using it as currency to downgrade him.
I know it. You know it. Everyone knows it.

Walcott was champion of the world at least.
Moore was one of the greatest 175 pounders ever and recognized as a great puncher and at least a sharp and dangerous puncher at HW.
They briefly scored KDs against Marciano.

185 pound Cooper put Ali down in his 19th fight. Ali's regarded as being PRIME just 3 or 4 fights down the line. Some would even say his VERY NEXT FIGHT against Liston was as good as he ever was.

 

My oh my, now people are questioning Ali and Tyson's chins to defend Rocky. This is like religious extremism! Both of them consistently took bombs from men 6'1-6'4 and anywhere from 210-240+ lbs. The closest Rocky came to that level was a gunshy old Louis in his last fight which obviously onoy counts for so much. No one is saying Rocky had a glass jaw, he was obviously tough and above average. But there is a serious lack of evidence he'd be just fine if he got caught by a big shot from men the size of Ali or Tyson's opponents. Its not just the size, its his style. He runs right into punches from c level journeymen like Schkorr and Layne and was cut frequently. Defensive wizard be was not. For comparison Golovkin has an amazing chin at 160 but it would be nonsense to assume he could just walk through or brush off cruiserweight Marco Huck's punches.

As for KO power, No matter what fancy arguments you use the facts of the matter are that Rocky had to settle for late round come-from-behind KO's against men under 200 lbs and they were all shopworn and nearly 40. These. Are. Facts. Stop glossing over it. Pretending like his power would be exactly the same against men 30-50 lbs heavier is intellectual dishonesty--unless you think Marvin Hagler or Roy Jonss could potentially beat or KO Rocky...? In which case youd still be wrong and an idiot but at least youd be consistent.

As I pointed out earlier, Rocky's accuracy and balance could be horrendous and even the biggest old school nostalgic fanboys like Nat Fleischer said this about Rocky. Stop pretending like he was a perfect complete package and he'd just zip in and out counter punching Foreman with perfect technique and precision.

At the very least be honest if youre going to use mental gymnastics.

 

Absolutely spot on.

 

But in this match up Rocky is against a guy decked 4 times in 3 fights with Ali, Young and Ron Lyle.

why not? Until his last two fights Rocky fought his whole career in 6oz gloves. By Ali and Tyson’s time fights were fought with 8oz and 10oz gloves.

 

But how many times was he actually knocked out? Once after punching himself out in a hot outdoor muggy stadium against the fastest heavyweight of all time. How many guys do you think could last 8 rounds slugging away, missing half their punches, getting countered in those conditions and not get stopped?

Foreman took bombs from Frazier, Norton, and Chuvalo without even blinking. As a fat old man he took bombs from Morrison, Briggs, Cooney, etc. His chin was never in question, he didn't pace himself or conserve his energy and he himself admits he was too anxious to "get it over with" and go for the KO when he was younger.

This actually works very much against Rocky and you know it. His chances would be much higher if Foreman was a patient boxer-puncher type like Louis. A man 35-40 lbs heavier who is also taller, has the reach advantage, and hits significantly harder trying to tear Rocky's head of from the opening bell is just about the worst clash of styles for a short come forward aggressive short armed boxer.

But what do Cus D Amato and emmanuel stewart know? Flescher was just imagining things when he said rocky was reckless and sloppy against Moore.They obviously werent aware that this is a 50/50 matchup, that rocky defies the wisdom of weight classes and that even though he consistently struggled to KO men under 200 without wearing them down he'd have no trouble finishing off men nearly twice his size. They didnt know Rocky was an amazing complete package who had speed, defense, accuracy, timing, the best chin of all time and the best puncher. Rocky never got hit and if he did it was to please the crowd for a comeback ko. His style had no flaws. No opponent should be favored to beat him otherwise you're obviously a hater.

Do you think golovkin can tank punches from marco huck, yes or no?

 

Had to settle? Lmao he was behind on the cards in one fight during his title run. You people really reach. And no one insulted Alis or Tyson’s chin they had great chins but ironically Marciano was down less then all of them and gets zero credit. Ali’s opposition is second to none and imo had the best chin ever. These are simply examples of fighters with great chins whom got knocked down or knocked out. This size argument is really lame. My hope is Usyk moves up and cleans house.

 

Ok then answer this very simple question: do you think golovkin could take punches from marco huck and go toe to toe with him, yes or no?

 

Don't be silly.
I wasn't questioning Ali's chin at all.
I was responding to "GOAT Primo Carnera" 's posts that basically claimed it is inconceivable that Ali, Holmes, Liston, Wlder (!) et al. could be dropped by Walcott/Moore level punchers.
My examples were valid and fitting response.

 

Bringing up Ali? Are you that shiftless? Did Rocky proove himself against Listons, Fraziers, Foremans, Lyles or Shavers? As far as that goes, THERE HAS BEEN a debate whether matured Ali could take a better shot or not. You can cancle this one on Rocky, because he stopped before going into a modern HW in Liston.

The thing everybody here knows, is you beeing full of **** regarding 90s-until today fighters.

The thing me and some others doing here, is bringing back logic into the world of brainsick comic hero fapping, comparing a 185-pounders chin who got down from single blows of LHWs with Vitali, Foreman, Ali and Tyson, who were beaten into pulp before beeing stopped.
All of that at a general ignorance in hindsight of different weightclasses, and I´m sure YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKIN ABOUT!

Distributing such sort of junk is what I justified call VIRAL. So much for who of us is "beeing full of ****" here

 

I didn't bring up Ali. You did.

This whole "Modern HW" thing you bang on about is BS.
Liston's this "modern HW" monster but if a guy like Eddie Machen went 12 rounds distance with Marciano, you'd be having a field day with it.

Yes, Ali took a punch better as he matured, and his chin was more proven than Marciano's. But that doesn't mean his chin was unproven.

I have no idea what you're talking about. My knowledge of 1990s heavyweights is pretty good.

You have no good logic.
You fail to recognize that every individual fighter is a separate case.
Being 185 pounds doesn't mean a fighter cannot possibly punch as hard as a 220 pounder, or that he cannot take a punch as well.
You assume that and fail to acknowledge variance across indviduals.

And, by the way, I think Foreman and Liston probably mash Marciano up inside 4 rounds, so no "comic book hero fapping" here.

 

Deductive reasoning of single examples to explain your "view of reality"? And you want to teach me about logic?

I´ve explained over and over again by statistics and resume detail that Rocky does not possess a modern HW-resume, which is confirmation by inductive reasoning. Yet, in hindsight of total ignorance of that, viral BS is spread by putting him against Foreman, Vitali and Fury, beeing 3 - 0 at SHW (0 - 0 at quality) the same time.

"He made a living by beating bigger men." "He is 50 - 50 against Foreman for me."
Remind you, we are on page 50 plus for this nonsense!

Where are Patterson, Leon Spinks, or Tunney fighting 230-guys? And by telling that, I wouldn´t bet a penny on Liston, Foreman or Tyson having a field day with the SHW behemoths of today.

Rockys chin was absolutely fine to accomplish his goals. Again: The problem is inventing "facts" via resume, that the fighter actually doesn´t possess. Like Vitali Klitschko beating gorillas, bears and rhinos.

 

I don’t see why not. Harry Greb And Micky Walker did rather well against big men. Golovkin certainly represents a special fighter of his times in the way Greb and Walker were. Huck really represents a Brian London level guy -and in the ring is not much different in size.

Of course the smaller man has to be really good.