JAMES J JEFFRIES V EARNIE SHAVERS ?

I do.

They were guys who should have been all that on paper, but somehow weren't.

 

Shavers broke his hand fighting Ron Stander.

 

I didnt switch my tune at all. A fighter who consistently is covered in blood wether we are talking as a rookie or an experienced champion obviously lacks defense.

You criticize and claim i havent read enough yet you dont provide any sources for me after i literally asked for them.

This is true. You are bound to get tagged fighting faster guys in order to be able to hit them.

I would say he had more "fighting instinct" than ring iq. He didnt have much of an amateur record or schooling yet he was able to go several rounds with a veteran boxer and stop him in his first pro fight. He had natural talent and fighting sense.

 

Great matchup on paper, but I have to go with the proven Great, JJ wins this by Decision.

 

He consistently found a way to win against all styles of fighter. He held enough in reverse to up the pace late in fights much longer than modern ones. I'd say that's indicitive of a good ring IQ

 

Well it definitely shows he was thinking and could plan.

 

The more mature and peak Shavers batters him sufficiently to a stoppage him before any issues of stamina are a concern. I fear that Shavers hit a bit harder than the Fitz who turned Jeff's face to mincemeat. Jeffries crouch and endure tactics are an invitation to obliteration.

 

That assumes he could find the target as well as FItz.

 

Jeff didn't offer much of a hard target to find. Sharkey was able to tee off on him and he has never been accused over being too scientific.

I love Fitz. He's in my Top 10 P4P. But

 

I think he benefitted from being one of the biggest and strongest heavyweights of his time in an era without very little legit heavyweight talent....a big powerful man should be able to take the power of the small fighters of his era and easily overpower them....he was barely 6ft not the 6'2" which is obvious by his pictures being slightly shorter or the same as J Johnson and barely taller than Fitz.....he was in fighting shape the same size as Shavers.....Mendoza can't speak intelligently on a fighter we can all evaluate so he chooses to build Jeff into Superman and all his opponents were faster than Ali and hit harder than Shavers or Foreman

 

Why did you quote my post just to respond to a bunch of points I didn't make, and not respond to my actual points?

 

Jeffries was six foot tall only slightly taller than Fitzsimmons.

 

Both Jeffries and Fitz wore the same weight gloves so Jeffries had as much chance to inflict facial damage as Fitz did didn't he?
Being considerably heavier you would expect the smaller gloves to favour him wouldnt you?
Both Jeffries and Shavers were an even six foot tall.
Jeffries in his major fights weighed
Sharkey 1. 205
Sharkey 2. 210
Corbett 1. 218
Corbett 2. 210
Fitz 1. 206
Fitz 2. 219
Ruhlin 2. 218

Shavers
Norton 210
Holmes 1.210
Holmes 2.211
Ali 211.25
No advantage in weight or size for either man. Shavers hits harder.Jeffries has the better chin.
Jeffries is a proven champion ,but proven against much smaller older men.
The modern 15 rds possibly favours Shavers.
Pretty even match up with both men having solid cases for victory.imo

 

You said he lacked ring IQ and failed to provide one example. Now you running from that mistaken comment. Jeffries only had one bad cut, and it was the 2nd fight with Fitzsimmons. I think Fitz did something to his glove. Now for a little learning. When Jeffries asked Fitz to see the gloves in the second fight because he didn't mark him up in the first fight, Fitz threw the gloves into the crowd. Hmmm....

Now your mistaken again, name the fights where he was consistently covered in blood, the word consistently means in every case or on every occasion. Your wrong again, and all you can do at this point is a troll.

One more lesson and you can teach yourself by watching. What percent of boxing fights are stopped solely based on cuts? You tell me 2%???

Give me a number, then ask yourself if you pick a fantasy fight based solely on cuts, which now seems to be your shifing argument.

 

Actually, reliable reports said Jeffries was 6 foot one and a 1/2 inches tall. He was measured many times and that is the number they kept coming up with. The Box rec listing is wrong and one issue with box rec is whoever edits page last rules, right or wrong.

The heavier guys Jeffries fought in Jackson, Ruhlin on Monroe ( 215 ) lasted less rounds.

Fitz cheated. It is known that he wrapped his fist in electoral tape, which can make a fist as hard as a rock. That is 100% true. That type of tape was not in the fight contract. Fitz did not use gauze. What is unknown is what he did if anything to the gloves, as the threw them into the crowd like a guilty man when Jeffries asked to see them as the first fight between the two, it was Fitz who was cut, not Jeffries.

Jeffries has several advantages over Shavers. Among them are stamina/conditioning and ability to rounds, Jeffries could go 25 in hard conditions, Shavers often gassed. Athletically speaking there is no comparison of the two, Jeffries had quicker feet and was physically stronger.

Stylistically speaking a guy with a suspect chin who gasses seldom beats a guy with an iorn chin that can also hit hard and doesn't gas, unless he has a masterful defense and the ability to move around quickly for 12-15 rounds, which Shavers did not. We need more posters here that understand how styles, strengths, and weaknesses make fights. Shavers was Ko'd 7 times and the only one who might have hit harder than Jeffries was Ron Lyle.

I was a Shavers fan growing up. He also had issues with cuts, and lost to lesser men, something Jeffries never did. Like another poster said there is an odd fascinaiton regarding heavyweight punchers with suspect chins. Maybe we need a Cleveland Williams vs Ernie Shavers thread?