JAMES J JEFFRIES V EARNIE SHAVERS ?

This is a paragraph of the description of the 2nd fight with sharkey:

"The battle was a notable one, for the reason that for the first time since John L. Sullivanreigned supreme the title was contested by two oldtime fighters, whose stock in trade is brawn and muscle. Not that tonight's battle was devoid of the element that boxing instructors define as the science of self-defense, but it was essentially a "slugging match," in which each of the principals made strenuous efforts to put his opponent out of the fight."

They straight up called it a slugging match. This was AFTER Jeff won the title so you can't chalk it up to a lack of experience. Both men had serious bruises and lumps from wailing on each other other. This shows a lack of defense.

From the first Corbett fight:

"He outboxed his man at both long and short range, and if he had the strength necessary he would have gained an early victory. A hundred times he ducked the punch that knocked him out. At times he made the massive Jim look like a beginner in the art of offense and defense with his hands. It was a clean knockout that came so quickly that it dazed the thousands of keen spectators, and left them in doubt as to just how the winning blow was delivered. It was avowed that it was a left hand jolt to the jaw but Jeffries himself and Referee Charley White, who stood at his side, say it was a right hand swing."

So one description indicates that Jeff basically got outboxed for nearly 2 dozen rounds and Corbett put on a clinic. They claim Jeff kept going for the same left hook knockout blow over and over "a hundred times". They also seem to imply Corbett woild have easily gottten the decision had he not been knocked out.

More descriptions of the fight:

"The finishing blow came suddenly and was a startling surprise. Corbett had been making a wonderful battle. His defense was absolutely perfect, and while he was lacking in strength, he had more than held his own and stood an excellent chance of winning the fight had it gone the limit. He had not been badly punished and had managed to mark his man severely. The winning punch was a short left to the jaw. Corbett dropped like weight and was clear out. Jeffries showed his ability to take punishment at any distance and hard. He was clearly outboxed and at times was made to look like a novice."

So tell me Mendoza, what part of this description indicates Jeff had high ring IQ? The part where they say Jeff was made to look like a novice? The part where it says Corbett didnt have a mark on him and was way ahead on the scorecards before suddenly getting caught (likelt due to old age catching up with him)?

Notice that the only part of this passage that gives Jeff praise is highlighting the fact he could "take punishment at any distance and hard" which further reinforces my point that he was a slugger who was willing to eat punches to land his own. Their description, not mine.

So what can we gather from this?

-Jeff's best traits were that he had good stamina, had good power, lots of courage.
-had a good hook and applied nonstop pressure

Weaknesses:

-lacked defense. He left himself open and got marked up or bruised in fights.
-when faced with a technician who wouldnt engage him, he fought mindlessly and threw the same punch dozens of times.
-was more than willing to take punches just to land one of his own.

Now, as ive said in a previous post, Jeff wasnt a dumbass. He knew his limitations and used his all his natural gifts to his advantage. Conserving your energy against a faster opponent and waiting until the perfect chance to explode is smart.

But against shavers his slugging tendencies and lack of defense may cost him. I have provided more than enough information to make my case that Jeff was indeed a slugger who lacked defense and was marked in several fights and didnt always seem to have a clear game plan and swung away relentlessly.

 

In my opinion Jeffries improved right up to the second Corbett fight.

I have given the subject its own thread.

 

And you can also find comments about Sharkey slipping and fainting, and about how Jeffries superior skill made the difference.

 

"Superior skill" is relative. Compared to a no defense having saloon brawler like sharkey jeff probably did look rather skilled. When he fought Corbett onlookers thought he was a novice and said he tried the same punch over and over and lost nearly every round.

I dont get why people are accusing me of hating when these are literally the descriptions given by eye witnesses.

 

Read the OP of my thread about the second Corbett fight.

 

I did. Jeff of the 2nd Corbett fight likely outlasts shavers with his improved technique. Either by decision or taking him into deep waters and stopping him rounds 9-11.

 

Great! Great posts Mendoza! I agree whole heartedly. Kudos

 

Reread the post you replied to there.

Sharkey was crude, but it gets exaggerated to the point of caricature. You can find loads of comments of him using footwork, feints, slipping punches and countering.

 

That may be true but the only thing relevant to the discussion is how he fought Jeff and how Jeff chose to fight back.

The same goes for all of Jeff's opponents. For all we know Gus Ruhlin might have had better stamina than George Chuvalo and greater accuracy than Louis. But in his actual fight with Jeff, this is what he said about his foe:

"Ruhlin was inaccurate and in poor wind, and I cannot say that he even had the courage and force I expected to encounter in him"

"Inaccurate" and "poor wind". It would be very dishonest if we found some text describing Gus as a "wonderfully accurate and well conditioned athlete" and ascribe these adjectived to Gus to boost Jeff's credentials.

Similarly, the only relevance of Tom Sharkey in a discussion about Jeff vs Shavers is how Jeff and Sharkey actually fought each other--which the unanimous consensus is that it was an all out bloody slug fest with wild punches thrown. How Sharkey was as a boxer "overall" in terms of his entire career is a completely separate discussion.

 

But you can find that in their second fight as well as loads of comments about how vastly improved Sharkey was.

 

Not to mention Sharkey fought a totally different fight the first time, keeping on the back foot an countering with Jeffries the agressor, compared to the much better performance of both in their second.

 

Jeffries reliance on his durability seems like a death sentence against Shavers.

 

But Shavers reliance on his lack of durability is no problem?

 

It's a question of whose vulnerability becomes a liability sooner. I believe it to be Jeffries.

 

As i said this is one of the easiest matchups to imagine. A mighty glacier vs a glass cannon. Both fighters have 2 versions: the reckless slugging versions and the ones that fought at a more measured pace with better tecunique.

If its the fast paced reckless brawl of their earlier careers its hard to imagine jeff taking bomb after bomb with no defense, failing to make any adjustments and winning somehow.

The best example I can think of is Lyle vs Shavers and he was nearly taken out as early as the 2nd round. He had to make adjustments and watch out for the right hand.

The more patient Jeff could be a huge problem as he had a good body attack and more sound technique.