Is Mike Tyson a top 10 HW?

Again I'm thinking of the ninth round of the Holmes Witherspoon fight. That was a champion.

 

Very good post, agree on almost all points.

To add Sam Mcvey was a teenager when Johnson beat him, Sam Langford estimated to be 20 years old and 156 pounds and Jeannette a raw novice with a sometimes losing record. Johnson > Tyson? I can't see it.

 

You selling Frazier, who looks about 5'10" tall short. He had amazing stamina, top hand speed in the hook and explosive feet to close the gap and cut off the ring. Frazier really shined vs smaller boxer types without a lot of power.

 

For a great while he was considered unstoppable in his era, until he lost interest in the sport and that started to show. I'd definitely rank him in the top 10, especially considering he was the youngest champ of all time, ragdolled berbic in the first and finished him in the second whose best trait as a fighter was that he was durable, knocked out Michael spinks who was had only been defeated before in his mind when he came out knowing Tyson was going to brutalize him, and was the only man to knock out Holmes and in the 4th ****ing round! I know Holmes was past his peak but he did go on after this loss to beat Mercer and go the distance with holyfield so I wouldn't say he was washed up at all. And he did all this being 5"10ish!!! That's unheard of in the modern era

 

How old was Tyson when he won the title, 20? The same age as McVey was in his last fight with Johnson, a fight in which he was the bigger man and was stopped after a one sided beatdown.
Not that calendar watching can ever give a true indication of a fighters development.
Johnson would be in danger all the time he was in there with Tyson,I doubt he ever faced that combination of speed,power ,and ferocity.
Langford is listed as being born on the 4th of March 1883,this is according to Box Rec,Canadian Encyclopedia,Wikipedia, the IBHOF Register, and CBZ . Sam fought Johnson on the 26th of April1906 , allowing for some discrepancy in the actual day in recording his birth , this makes him more than 20 years old when he fought Johnson.

 

The Joe Jeannette web site lists 9 fights between Jeannette and Johnson. Jeannette winning one on a foul, Johnson winning 2 ,one being a draw,and the others being No Decisions.

 

he beat several much taller boxers on his way to becoming and retaining the undisputed crown, including the ATG number 1/2 big man. you clown.

 

I see you did not include the 14 no decision fights Jeannette had in that period,can I ask why? If we do not render decisions for no decision fight ,which seems logical to me, when their rivalry ended the score was Johnson was 2 Jeannette 1 with one draw.
Jeannette had at the end 24 fights under his belt with 4 losses 1 to Black Bill, 2 to Johnson and 1 to Langford.This gives a different picture I think you will agree ?To list only Jeannette's official wins and losses implies he was less experienced than he actually was.
Regarding weights for fights, there was no weigh in for the Langford v Johnson fight,their weights were estimated.For the Johnson Burns fight Burns stepped on the scales the day before and they read168.5lbs Johnson did not weigh in so again his weight is only an estimate but certainly Johnson had weight advantages in both these fights.

 

Call BS on tucker breaking his hand that early, he took several hard left hooks to the body after missing with the right hand inrounds 3 and 4 and then he kept it at home.
Then he got outjabbed by tyson

Thomas was a very good fighter, Tyson really put a beating on him in round 1, the Thomas actually came back and won a few rounds before being pounded into submission.

He then took a lengthy layoff(drug binge) same as tucker and was never the same.

Holmes was still a decent win, 225lbsand with more legs than he showed in the 90s. Holmes got iced as soon as he tried fighting back, prime Holmes may have gotten nailed even earlier because he wouldn't have spoiled as long.

Spinks was a legacy fight and if Tyson had boxed him for 6 rounds and the blown him out, the it would have been discussed as a "great win"

Ruddock was a very good win, Ruddock was sharp and was nailing him with hard punches on the way in and Mike just bombed him for 19 rounds showing a granite chin,a heart and conditioning.
Ruddock never showed that same sharpness or punch resistance again.
Ruddock now admits he was never the same again and claims Tyson was probably ruined by that fight as well


Tubbs was a good win, Tyson was keeping up with him in boxing skills before he iced him.
Tubbs went on to give Bowe a razor close fight years later

 

Many of the guys Tyson blew out, Holmes struggled with big time or never fought.
Many of the guys he blew out gave other ATGS/HOF very tough fights years later when they were much more declined

 

true but KO artists have that feature. Marciano, Demps, Sully, Tyson etc.
Whereas points pickers like Holmes generally tend to plateau the majority of their KOs around eurolevel.

 

The Holmes who beat Ali would have stuffed that jab in Tyson's face and moved and clinched so much that Mike would have resorted to biting or some other illegal **** to mess the fight up. He would have given up after the seventh or eight round (any longer than that and he would have been dropped and stopped, probably by the uppercut, which was perhaps Holmes' only real power punch).

People who doubt, just watch Holmes from the first Shavers victory to...oh, say Leon Spinks. Mike might have knocked him down, but Holmes was a master at picking himself up the floor and often being more dangerous than he was pre-knockdown. Mike wasn't that....at all.

I just find it kind of amusing people think Mike would have any chance against Holmes in his prime...even Mike said he suffered no delusions regarding that.

 

The main problem I think Mike would have had with Frazier is the latter's unrelenting nature. He'd get knocked down then keep throwing that hook over and over again. If it got past four rounds....

It might be more a matter of heart than anything else. As far as Frazier being great...dude, he most certainly was. I don't think there was anyone else in the world whom could have beat Ali in the FOTC, Frazier took all kinds of vicious shots (some of the best ever in Ali's career).

I should mention that I think a pissed off Frazier (i.e. the one in the FOTC) would demo Tyson. By the time Joe got to Foreman he had expelled the demon that was Ali (even the contestable "revenge win" via Ali didn't change that, as Frazier wasn't the same fighter after the FOTC, period imo).

Ali wound Joe up for years...you can just see in the middle rounds of the FOTC, Joe with that look on his face like "ignorant? gorilla?" whap whap!

 

I'm saying Johnson did not weigh in for either the Langford or the Burns fight and I am correct.Langford did not weigh in for the Johnson fight either, weights were estimated.
Papers, including one you posted, also said Johnson was a foot taller than Langford, its pure unvarnished BS and would make him 6'7". The New World says outweighed by at least 40 pounds if Langford was 156lbs ,as you stated, this would make Johnson at least 196 pounds, 4 pounds heavier than you say he was when he won the title at age 30. Clay Moyle Langford's biographer said Johnson outweighed Langford by"about 30 lbs."no one knows for sure.