JAMES J JEFFRIES V EARNIE SHAVERS ?

The quote says exactly what i ****ing wrote if you bothered to read it. Doesnt require an advanced college degree to interpret either:

"The Atlanta Constitution reported the following: Corbett emerged from a year's retirement from the ring rejuvenated and fresh. He was as fast and clever as back in the days when people marveled at his skill. His footwork was wonderful and his defense perfect. He outboxed his man at both long and short range, and if he had the strength necessary he would have gained an early victory. A hundred times he ducked the punch that knocked him out. At times he made the massive Jim look like a beginner in the art of offense and defense with his hands. It was a clean knockout that came so quickly that it dazed the thousands of keen spectators, and left them in doubt as to just how the winning blow was delivered. It was avowed that it was a left hand jolt to the jaw but Jeffries himself and Referee Charley White, who stood at his side, say it was a right hand swing."

So it was either a left or right that did the knockout. Either way, the bolded part makes it extremely explicit Jeff was repeatedly going for said punch and CORBETT REPEATEDLY DODGED THE PUNCH THAT EVENTUALLY KNOCKED HIM OUT. THERE IS NOTHING AMBIGUOUS HERE.

It's obvious Corbett was outboxing the repetitive slugger and simply ran out of gas, eventually falling prey to the punch he had an easy time dodging previously. In other words, volume punching and body shots earned Jeff the victory which is EXACTLY what most trainers have their fighter do to take out an outside fighter who uses his legs.

Even Janitor admits Jeff was way behind on the cards before the momentum changed (which according to him was the 15th round). Why are you being so thick headed? None of this is my bias or interpretation, its right there in plain ****ing English.



The Durango Democrat, a completely separate newspaper, basically said the same thing as the Atlanta Constitution:

"The finishing blow came suddenly and was a startling surprise. Corbett had been making a wonderful battle. His defense was absolutely perfect, and while he was lacking in strength, he had more than held his own and stood an excellent chance of winning the fight had it gone the limit. He had not been badly punished and had managed to mark his man severely. The winning punch was a short left to the jaw. Corbett dropped like weight and was clear out. Jeffries showed his ability to take punishment at any distance and hard. He was clearly outboxed and at times was made to look like a novice. The crowd, which numbered fully eight thousand, was with Corbett and his defeat fell upon a silent crowd. There were cheers for him when he revived and left the ring, and he was generally given more consideration than the victor. Corbett is still a factor in pugilistic fame. He has regained much of his old time form. The battle was clean and it is doubtful if there was a single infraction of the rules"

Once again, a completely separate report indicating Corbett basically boxed Jeff's head off. The knockout blow came as a "sudden surprise" and people thought he would have certianly won the decision prior to the ko. They also make note that Jeff had to take a lot of punishment in order to eventially turn things around and land the knockout blow.

What is so confusing and problematic in these reports? Oh, it must be because it doesn't suit your agenda! Pretty sure if they were unreliable sources they would have been thrown out.

 

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/James_J._Jeffries_vs._Bob_Fitzsimmons_(2nd_meeting)

Here is a boxrec page with a picture of the two shaking hands before the fight....in this picture Jeff looks slightly shorter but this can be explained by his leaning to the right slightly....however they are looking at each others eyes and are near even if you look...there would be no way to explain by this picture how a 6'1.5"-6'2" man could lose three inches of height tanding near upright Fitz is supposedly 5'11" which looks reasonable when we use a similar body type in Mike McCallum as an example.

http://boxrec.com/en/event/11584/17531

A page on boxrec stating the reported heights of Corbett at 6'!" and Jeffries at 6'0"

Here is a picture of Jeffries standing upright while Corbett who is clearly taller and Choynski about the same height as Jeff
https://binged.it/2H4QPuR

Here is Jeff squaring off with the obviously taller Corbett
https://binged.it/2H5iHir

Here is a picture of Jeffries vs Sharkey mistitled as Jeff vs Corbett however it is clear Jeff is taller not towering over the 5'8" Shark
https://binged.it/2H5xERS

Here is another picture of Corbett and Jeff notice the little hill Jeff is standing on and the depression that Corbett is standing in
https://binged.it/2H7iDiu

There are many more pictures....you will notice how big Jeffs head was, short thick neck and how thick his legs are which are the traits of many a durable fighter such as a Chuvalo, LaMotta etc.....however unlike Chuvalo and LaMotta he never faced a physical equal or bigger that could crack to prove his chin against.....

 

The boxrec wiki is barely maintained, a lot of important fights don't even have pages, the reports included are just what ever someone has bothered to add, it grants no extra authority.

Please explain why you think short bits of text from a Colorado and Atlanta Newspaper are better sources than detailed articles from New York for a fight that happened in New York.

 

The bits of text on boxrrec don't even contradict the detailed reports, they just give a poor understanding of the fight, a short bit of text cut from a report is never going to give a good understanding of a long fight.

But then you misunderstood what they said, being charitable, or just flat out lied about what they said, in claiming Jeffries tried throwing the same sloppy punch for 20 rounds, just total rubbish.

Neither says Jeffries punch was sloppy, you made that up.

The reports say he dodged the punch that ended the fight, but there's not the implication you added that Jeffries was trying to win simply by throwing it over and over, as the more detailed reports make clear, especially early he focused on the body, and he used a variety of punches, neither also mentioned Jeffries' 19th round knock down of Corbett.

Neither bit of text even says that he'd been throwing it, let alone relying on it, throughout most of the fight, only that Corbett had dodged it a number of times.

Neither even say Corbett was winning or even doing well when he got stopped, only that he had been boxing well and had a lead.

Both say Corbett made Jeffries look like a novice at times (which is common with extremely fast boxers), but you removed the caveat of "at times" which again changes the meaning.

 

Imo it depends on the length of the fight, as far as I know Jefferies was a very slow starter, his chin and durability would hold him up for sure, he took Fitz best shots after all, so it comes down to could he adapt to modernish rules and gloves, I personally think Jim’s power is overrated, I’m not 100 percent sure he can finish Ernie but I’dk because he got stopped by quarry and Lyle, so after a unnecessarily long response, I’m gonna wager Jim stops Ernie before 10

 

A quick review.

Shavers was stopped by the following fighters:

Tex Cobb
Bernardo Mercado
Larry Holmes
Ron Lyle
Jerry Quarry
Ron Stander

The only real puncher on the list who could be compared to Jeffries in power was Lyle.

I have seen most of these fights ( Maybe not Mercado ). Tex Cobb who wasn't a puncher or a boxer was beating Shavers and finished him.

Quarry stopped him early. Stander stopped him in 5 rounds. How in the world is Shavers going to last with Jeffries? He wouldn't;

Did Shavers even stop a top ten contender when he was ranked? Anyone care to research? Norton should be one. Maybe Ellis, was ranked, but keep in mind he was a blown up middleweight. That's it, and neither guy was durable.

Summary:

Medium level punchers stopped Shavers.
He lost on points and was nearly stoped by a 21-24 fighter
In add-on to a bad, chin, he gasses, and cut too easily.

I don't see how Shavers beats Jeffries unless he lands his best bomb very early, and that wasn't; enough vs Holmes.

 

The only way to judge height is standing side to side. Babe Ruth was 6'1" tall. Jeffries exactly even. Same with Tunney.

In photo people walking or bending their knees ( As Jeffries was vs Fitz ) can look shorter, and the camera angle and depth can alter heights.

 

Various article actually claimed Bob Fitzsimmons was over 6 foot, Peter Maher is listed the same height on boxrec, but the reports say Fitz was taller.

I can dig them up if anyone doubts, but don't have them to hand.

 

Something tells me no matter what evidence is placed before you...you will in your own mind come up with a way to justify your own irrational belief.....Since you apparently have never seen a weigh in or been weighed in then you would know that heights are guessed, made up or given by the fighter most of the time I highly doubt Jeffries was ever measured but it is clear by every picture available he was no towering hulk he was average height but definitely not 6'1" or the more commonly believed 6'2".......you love arguing a fighter that their is very little footage of that proves any of the liberal exaggerations the writers of the day used...in the pre T.V. era the writing was in lieu of being there and was meant to fire the imagination which it clearly has done to you.

 

If it's all based on guessing, then we don't know Jeffries height, not just whatever number you want it to be.

If none of the heights were measured comparing them is pointless, as we don't know what we are comparing them too.

Also David Haye is actually taller than Wlad
https://imgur.com/a/lxrxT1L

And Kevin Johnson is slightly taller than Vitali
https://i.imgur.com/TSutYNH.jpg

 

SO this picture of him standing side by side with Joe Choynski it appears if Jeff had his head up he might have an inch on Joe
https://binged.it/2H8zLEt

This picture of Jeff standing next to Ruth in heeled street shoes certainly it appears that Jeff is a full inch+ shorter
https://binged.it/2YeaBKk

Another picture of Jeffries standing in front of a fence for reference with Choynski leaning on it......everybody must have been 6'1-2"+ in this picture
https://binged.it/2YgrpAl

Old Jeffries and Sharkey facing off...either Sharkey grew a few inches or Jeffries shrank several inches hmmmmmm
https://binged.it/2YiomaV

 

And then Sharkey shrank (or Jeffries grew) for this one
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...y-jeffries-james-jackson-news-photo/646286300

 

It is a fact that Wlad was taller thn Haye and Vitali taller than Johnson....just from other pictures not the out of context ones you showed

Either everyone was a giant in Jeffs day which is contrary to medical science data or Jeff isn't s tall as you guys believe....we can guess from Jeffs tendency to be a fat arse that he may or may not have been measured by a doctor....we can also more than likely assume with Fitz being a fitness fanatic that he has been more than likely measured.....We can assume Tom Sharkey was measured since the military did measure soldiers/sailors so they can fit them into their standard uniforms....we can assume that Jess Willard may have been measured due to his unusual height and possible curiosity

 

That appears to be a 4inch height difference to me

 

I'd take a guess and say Bernado Mercado hit harder than Jeffries.
"As the talent rich 1970′s heavyweight picture faded into the 1980′s, Larry Holmes emerged as the dominant boxer. Still there were some very capable contenders. Among them was a 6’4″ brute from Columbia, South America named Bernardo Mercado.


Mercado was born on January 16, 1952. He was a fine amateur who won the 1975 Central America and Caribbean Gold Medal with a three round decision over Trevor Berbick. He turned pro later that year and scored four first round knockouts in his first five fights. In his sixth fight he halted former world title challenger Manuel Ramos in five rounds. He would also score big kayo wins over James J. Woody and Randy Stephens.


Mercado was 20-0 on June 22, 1978 when he met the highly touted ( 12-0) former Olympian “Big” John Tate. Bernardo suffered a major set back as Tate stopped him in two rounds. Tate would go on to win the World Boxing Association version of the heavyweight title. Four months after the loss to Tate, Bernardo met another future WBA champion in Mike Weaver. Muscular Mike halted Mercado in round five and Bernardo’s stock dropped dramatically. It would rise again quickly when he took out old foe Trevor Berbick in one round in 1979. Berbick would later go on to win the WBC heavyweight title. Mercado would later defeat the crafty Henry Clark to re-establish himself as a title threat.


In 1980 Mercado moved high up in the ratings with a seventh round stoppage of the feared Earnie Shavers. The “Puncher Of The Century” nearly had Mercado out in round three but Bernardo got off the floor to weather the storm and halt the aging Shavers. This victory led to a World Boxing Council elimination bout against former champion Leon Spinks. In one of his career best performances “Neon” Leon ended Mercado’s dream of a title shot in round nine.

In 1981 Mercado would lose a hard fought battle with highly rated Tex Cobb. That would be Mercado’s swan song. He won six straight fights over the next seven years against lesser opposition. In 1989 he was taken out in one round by prospect Jimmy Thunder. That loss ended his respectable career.

In 39 bouts Bernardo was victorious in 34 of them. He won 29 by knockout for a nearly 75% KO ratio. He met four heavyweight champions and three that challenged for the title. Randy Stephens would also twice challenge for the cruiserweight title. Add in Mercado’s win over the gifted Henry Clark and you can see that Bernardo was a legit contender in his time."
Jeffries absorbed the blows from excellent punchers such as Choynski and Fitzsimmons but both were no more than supermiddleweights.
Was Jeffries ever hit on the chin by anyone remotely resembling Mercado?