In which HW bouts was the nearest we came to having prime ATGs fighting each other?

Ali was better in his second fight v Frazier and came close to matching the speed he had in the 60`s. Walcott gave Marciano hell in their first so he had quite a bit left and the same could be said for Charles.

 

If you consider them both ATG's Corbett v Fitzsimmons? It really depends on who you think is an ATG? If you think Tommy Burns was one then him and Johnson. Same with Louis v Baer . Langford v Jeannette 1915?

 

Bowe-Holyfield I

 

Was Patterson in his prime for the first Liston fight?

 

The closest is probably Frazier vs Mathis but Mathis wasnt an ATG. 2 undefeated prime Olympians for the vacant title is as good as it gets on paper.

There are dozens of examples of 2 atgs fighting "near" their primes or 1 is and 1 isn't, or 1 guys "great" and the other is simply "good". But 2 atgs in their prime? Hard to say.

The problem is usually you aren't going to have more than 1 ATG in their prime in the same division within a 3-5 year span (i say 3-5 years becsuse usually that's the longest time frame when a fighter is at their peak in the skill and athletic sense, if not shorter).

 

Fitzsimmons vs Corbett
Walcott vs Marciano 1
Bowe vs Holyfield 1
Patterson vs Ingo 1
Marciano vs Charles 1
Schmeling vs Sharkey 1&2
Johnson vs Burns
Mercer vs Lewis
Walcott vs Charles 1-3

Probs a few others I'm missing. Either way, I regard all the fighters above as at their best condition for the fight.

I'd also add:

Ali vs Frazier (Ali only slightly past it)
Ali vs Foreman (Ali only slightly past it)
Louis vs Walcott (Louis only slightly past it)
Liston vs Ali (Liston only slightly past it, honestly I don't think Liston was past it at all but that's the community consensus)

I was also mulling over adding Ibeabuchi vs Tua but I dunno if I'd label them "ATGs", though they both rank highly on my H2H list. Same with Byrd's fights.

 

Bowe never proved he was an all-time great and Holy was far better in the rematch, he had improved by that time.

 

Mercer was nowhere near an all-time great and Lewis wasn`t the finished article in a bout where he was pretty bad.

 

Now Walcott was prime vs. Marciano.... okay

 

Arguably Foreman v Frazier 1. Frazier was unbeaten, undisputed champion. He may not have been as sharp as he had been a couple of years earlier but he was still young enough to be considered prime.

 

Tua could be called a hall of famer based on sheer longevity and he did beat 4 champions, but Ibeabuchi hell no. Neither were atgs.

Mercer being an ATG is very debatable.

Walcott was an ATG and in terms of skill and technique he looked marvelous, but he was past his physical prime when he fought marciano at 38 and more than 68 fights with plenty of wars with Louis/Charles/etc. This isnt debatable.

Ingo is definitely not an atg by any stretch of the imagination. He's on the same tier as Leon Spinx, a 1 hit wonder.

Foreman vs Frazier should count, both were undefeated gold medalists and in their 20's. Although some people make a billion excuses.

Liston wasn't in his best condition against Ali. This is well documented in multiple sources and interviews. He didn't take Ali serious and thought it would end in 2 rounds. That wasnt Ali's fault obviously but this is what reporters said.

 

I think the point whoever said that was trying to make is that Tunney, Jefferies, Ali, holyfield, foreman, Lennox, joe Louis, and others were able to win legacy fights with fighters people would consider atgs even if the opponent wasnt in their best condition ever and tyson never did. He lost his legacy fights with holyfield and lewis and didnt avenge any losses.