Just been reading Budd Schulberg's, " Ringside" in it he says he was at the Chicago Play Boy Mansion with Norman Mailer and Rocky Marciano ,Marciano was then 39,he says Rocky called him into a room and said ."Budd you always level with me,I got a hunch I can lick Sonny,I won't be afraid of him like Floyd. I wont go down from a punch like Floyd.And I think I can get under the jab and hurt him in the body".he asked Shulberg for his opinion, Shulberg told him to forget it! Sound sense.
And I think he could've done it! In 1952. Christ Marciano would've been butchered in a comeback. I don't even wanna picture how it'd turn out. Glad he didn't try it. I always knew that Marciano was offered a deal to fight Patterson, Ingo and Liston, but I never knew he actually considered fighting Liston. I know he actually started training to fight Ingo but gave up due to lack of motivation. Surprised he'd say something like that
Marciano aged badly as a fighter. I think he could have given Liston fits in his prime, but at the end of his career he was done.
He more realistically looked at a comeback against Johansen, and thought better of it, after a few days in the gym. I doubt that this comeback went far beyond a few throwaway remarks. When I look at the controversy that Marciano generates 60+ years later, it is hard to escape the conclusion that his decision to stay retired was a sound one. He definitely protected his brand!
An old fighter can kid himself only so much. He must differentiate from what he once was and what he can still do, And money cannot cloud this judgement. Rocky was fortunate in that he had an alternative income, flying around the world for cash in hand appearances, otherwise, he could have been forced to delude himself. Which is what other fighters do. They don’t have that option. Rocky was lucky he had that option. However, if this is true, Rockys assessment of Sonny was sound. - Had he still been as capable as he had been at the peak of his abilities that is. The truth is, Rocky knew from the weeks he spent trying to regain what he had in the gym for the Ingo fight that he really was not desperate enough to chance it. He did not need it. Not enough anyway, and ultimately this is why Rocky never came back. He had options. If Rocky spoke to Budd Schulberg it was only to test the water. He knew more than Budd ever did. It’s not like Rocky could learn anything from that guy. People forget. Rocky was extremely shrewd at that point. Maybe he was worrying if his appeal as the undefeated retired champion was becoming overexposed. The guy never stopped making appearances as “America’s Guest”, he must have worried that this was wearing thin. It was always about the money with Rocky. As in money he could make without sharing it with “partners”. Lou Duva said Rocky asked if he could comeback as a fighter without selling off percentages to other people and he was told he couldn’t comeback without giving away large percentages of himself to other people. And because Rocky knew what he could earn doing what he was doing, he decided he was better off continuing what he was doing. His overheads were zero and nobody knew what he earned. And that would not have been the case if he fought Sonny or Ingo. Somebody would have to finance that, pay for his camp and take a percentage of his purse. Rocky was against all that by then. But yeah. At his best, Rocky would have been a harder opponent for Sonny than people realise. He hit harder than anybody who beat Sonny and at his best he was a lot better than any of the guys Sonny actually beat.
Marciano once said that if Joe Louis couldnt come back that he wouldnt try but the money gets bigger and the pain and punch memory fades...I respect Marciano for believing that he could win but the body listens not to the mind though it may try. I dont think Marciano's style was meant for longevity - He may have hasd another 3-5 fights left in him but I respect someone who can resign at the top and beating the best of your time Gene Tunney got out at the top (married a millionairess) and Marciano. Lennox Lewis got out in time but left the Vitali rematch on the table but still got out a winner
That's what I heard. After Johanson beat Patterson, Rocky went away for about a week and trained, but in the end decided that he didn't have it anymore.
The best version of Liston brutally exposes any version of .Marciano. Case closed. Liston was a watershed heavyweight, the first real athlete to assume the heavyweight throne. Big, long and strong beyond belief. Not another breadline Rudy type overachieving but a built up from the ground fast twitch athlete. You want to argue "in their own times" "amongst their contemporaries" or any of the like and then Marciano finds a good ranking. But head to head across eras? Please.
At no point in time could Rock "The Club Fighter" Marciano beat Liston. Liston is overrated in a historic sense but still is light years beyond Marciano. Marciano couldn't handle Ted Lowry's punching power. Marciano's best win were against old men, mob controlled fighters, and other low level fighters who for the most part were 180 pound guys. Liston would spark Rocky Marciano out in 1 round or 2 tops.
Liston was a great fighter. But to call him “the first real athlete to assume the heavyweight throne” is deeply disrespectful of all the champions who came before him. Everyone else wasn’t a real athlete? That’s not true. Liston was great, but without Floyd, he’s just a guy who impressively beat Roy Harris and Zora Foley. Is that enough to eclipse every fighter who came before him? There’s an argument Floyd never turned up for either of the fights they had...and this was after Ingo may have washed Floyd up anyway. Sonny was certainly an interesting fighter with a great command of power and skill but he did not reach such heights in elite fights that other champions did. Holyfield, Lewis even Tyson eclipse Liston just on Resume alone and this is without mentioning champions before Liston. In the pre steroid era Sonny was at least scary if this is something important to you. But there were many greater champions that came before and after Liston. Knocking great champions just for being under 200lb is one thing but boosting a champion over 200lb Beating fighters under 200 is another thing.
49-0 is impressive and Marciano did beat some ATG fighters, but all of them were past their prime. Louis, Walcott, Charles, and Moore were all past it when they fought Rocky.
