Was Mike Tyson a cherry picker in the 1990's?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, May 7, 2019.


  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You and I have a different definition of cherry picking. I can give a guy coming back from a four or two year lay-off six months of easier fights without calling him a cherry picker.

    And even if you disagree, that one year in total was only a fifth of the time he was active in the 90's. So based on a fifth of the time he was active, when he was coming back from long lay-offs, you call him a cherry picker for his entire activity in the decade. That's silly even for you.

    Good to hear that you've not gone completely off the deep end.

    Would you even entertain the thought that the fact that he had lost to a guy Tyson destroyed and was unranked without a title had more to do with it?


    That's no proof, though.

    Yes, as I already said, it was a bad match-up for a vacant title, but that's not Tyson's fault. He had just collected one of the major titles and went after another. With the IBF title yet to be decided between Moorer and Schultz and the WBO also vacant and to be decided. After that he took on Holy's challenge.

    You can try and twist and turn things have much you like, you won't convince anyone that that is a cherry picking year

    Funny that you should accuse others of cherry picking, the way your cherry pick data. Going in to 1996 Bruno and Seldon were both ranked. When Tyson signed to fight them they were both ranked. That's what matters. That they weren't ranked after Tyson had thoroughly beat them, doesn't.

    Going in to 1997, Holy was the top dog, whom Tyson faced. So in four fight over 96-97 he faced the nr 7, nr 6, nr 5 and nr 1 fighter. In three of the fights he challenges for titles. Apparently your version of cherry picking.

    So who was the danger man with a major title then? That's the question you fail to answer time and time again.

    Michael Moorer? He was yet to win the vacant WBC title when Tyson defeated Bruno. Actually won it just three weeks before Tyson was originally scheduled to face Seldon (the fight was postponed).

    Same with the WBO title.

    So Tyson signing up to fight for the WBC and then the WBA title when the IBF and the WBO titles were still vacant was cherry picking?

    Don't you hear how crazy that sounds.


    It wasn't a vacant title fight. McCall (unsuccesfully) defended the title he had won from Lewis.


    But this is going nowhere. You and every else knows you've lost this one even worse than usual. I'll leave it at that.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  2. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He actually picked off the only belt holders, since both the IBF and the WBO were vacant at the time.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Thanks that wasn't so hard now was it? You listed 13 names + Tyson As I thought the Tyson fans would say Ruddock and Bruno, but neither really rank as the top ten in the decade. I could pull out other names who beat better in the 1990's, including Buster Doguals.

    My picks for top ten in the decade:

    1. Lewis - Clearly
    2. Bowe - You could argue Holyfield, no issues
    3. Holyfield - You could argue Bowe, no issues
    4. Tua - Beat Rahman, Ruiz, Maskeav, Izon
    5. McCall - beat Lewis, Maskev, and Holmes
    6. Ibeabuchi - beat Tua and Byrd Undefeated
    7. Moorer - Beat Holyfield and Schultz
    8. Morrison - Beat Ruddock and Foreman
    9. Tyson - Beat Ruddock and Bruno on his last fight
    10. Foreman - Beat Moorer, Schultz

    Bruno doesn't belong and based on who he beat in the decade, and losing quite often, neither does Ruddock. It seems like your are fine being wrong or can't admit that Tyson failed to beat a single man in the top ten for the decade.

    I say he beat zero in the 1990's. Three? Are y ou joking?! I can create a thread on who beat the best ranked contenders in the 1990's. Bruno and Ruddock's name would not be on it. Bruno one of the best 10 in the 1990's for beating who, Seldon? Come on. Do you want to come across as objective?

    My next reply will tell you who he could have faced aside from the 4 cherry picked fights. Read it.

    Mercer was still good, better than Botha, Norris, and Mathis Jr, wouldn't you agree? I'll answer for you. YES.

    Pre HIV Morrison vs. Tyson was talked about.

    Did not really matter as Moorer beat Holyfield. Moorer vs Tyson would have been interesting. I'm not sure how Tyson would look vs a Southpaw with a good jab.

    This was a vancant title fight. McCall vs an older Bruno who many felt should have retired. He defeated a listless Mcall on that night, not looking very good and King moved in.

    Foreman has better wins ( and losses ) than Tyson in the 1990's. Foreman vs Tyson would have made a lot of $$$ Yes, the fight was talked about in the media.

    Not in the early 1990's. This fight had a buzz about it two. A Brooklyn war. Didn't happen. Rock Newman wanted this fight, as he correctly felt Tyson was tailor made for Bowe. Notice how many of the big Tyson fight did not happen?

    A reason why Tyson cherry picked in the early 2000's, wouldn't you say? Lewis waited for Tyson to age but the fight wasn't not close. Tyson had to be talked out of quitting during the match, then asked for a re-match, losing all 30 second segments after the first round.

    Tyson vs Lewis could have happened in the mid 90's. Notice all these fights that could have happened for Tyson but didn't and who he fought? Hence he cherry picked.

    Agreed. And there was not chance of Tyson facing a young up and coming undefeated bull like ike. That is 100% certain.

    Tyson had no intention of facing Tua. If you don't like the term cherry picking, how about he picked some low hanging fruits?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    A poster asked who should have Tyson fought in the 1990's.

    My reply:

    Tyson in the 1990's failed to beat the best ten of the decade as defined by people who beat top ten opposition. He was the beneficiary of a WBA vacant title set up between Burce Seldon and old Tony Tucker, neither of whom were ranked. While you can't blame Tyson letting Don King set him up with a very easy patch to win a belt vs. Seldon ( the winner of Seldon vs Tucker vs the vacant WBA belt ), he did take 4 cherry pick fights in the 1990's and even more in the early 2000's

    For the 1990's the cherry picks were:

    McNeeley
    Mathis Jr
    Botha
    Norris

    If asked who he should have fought instead I'd reply as follows:

    McNeeley was a fraud, not even ranked in the top 100. He would not even qualify as a sparring partner for Tyson. Tyson needed to go rounds vs. a solid journeyman type, so why not Ross Puriity? Ross would be a test to where Tyson was.

    Mathis was short, fat and with the punch of a welterweight. I think he only had 6 KO'd in 20+ fights, which is unheard of at heavyweight. This was a joke of a fight. After the warm-up with McNelly, A top 15-25 opponent makes sense. Why not Corrie Sanders? Sanders name was often used in the press for a possible next opponent.

    Botha was not in the top ten, and this late in the decade any top ten opponent would have been an acceptable choice to get back into the mix after losing to Holyfield 2x. Pick anyone in the top ten.

    Norris was a cruiserweight who added some fat. He had no business at all in the ring with Tyson. Once again, a top ten opponent was needed.
     
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  5. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Bokaj and Rainer, I applaud you on your patience and consistent posts when replying time and time again to this thread. You've gone above and beyond stating facts and rationalizing your answers.

    Golden feather and Jacksilver, among others that I haven't mentioned, kudos as well.

    Well done guys!
     
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  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Wrong it would have been one of Valuev's biggest pay days. He did not want the fight, even when he had no belt. Haye did not want Vitali either. He backed out of the opportunity too. Charr was Vitlai's last fight, and he's didn't exactly go away after many years so in hindsight it was not a terrible pick.
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I guess my facts don't count? Thanks, even though I gave an equal amount of information.
     
  8. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    How about posting your picks for the top fighters of the 4 and a half years of the decade that Tyson was an active fighter? Because your list is meaningless without that context!
    Morrison was never ranked during the 90's
    The early90's? After defeating no 2 Ruddock
    twice in 91 Tyson was in prison until 95, so you actually mean one year 1990, that's the yearTyson fought number 7 Douglas.
    Ike was only relevant to Tyson in 1999!
    Mid 90's? Tyson was in prison from 91 to 95 and suspended from mid 97 till the beginning of 99!
     
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  9. Rainer

    Rainer Active Member Full Member

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    Here is Mathis 6 foot tall , giving Tyson a pretty good go.

    This content is protected
     
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  10. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    We're all in agreement that better opponents were possible (as I think I state for the fourth time now) for these two short periods. But this was two six month periods, in total a fifth of the time he was active in the decade, and he was coming back from long lay-offs. It's absurd and only a product of blatant agenda to based on this say that he was a cherry picker seen to his whole activity in the decade. I can't at all understand how you can do that with a straight face. You turn yourself into a sideshow on this forum, and for what?

    And that ends the time I'm going to waste on you in this thread.
     
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Mathis was not very good. There were much better to choose from, but like you said he gave Tyson a pretty good go. That’s why team Tyson picked him and not the better fighters . A.K.A cherry picking a weak puncher who was short and easy to hit.
     
  12. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    i was wrongly banned for quoting probabilities on cancer, and someone tried to pretend from that that I had said someone else had cancer. so i wasnt banned, I was reinstated and someone else was banned instead.

    So you've got no spurious reason to continue to duck my answers from several pages ago now, when u are ready.

    w
     
  13. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    charr is an unforgiveable pick
     
  14. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    whichever crapazzes ha killed wlad easy, you'd theorise they were good picks.

    corrie was at his peak a wbu level fighter, the title won by homeless people.
     
  15. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Lmao