Pavlik v Canelo..

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Liquorice, May 14, 2019.



  1. Birmingham

    Birmingham Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I agree with this, what im seeing is(not in your post) people don't like Canelo, so it clouds their judgement it seems a bit. The facts are Canelo is tough as F, and he has good punch selection, hes a good fighter, very good. This fight like most Canelo fights imo is tight on the cards, he just has that ability to take a fight late and make it hard against anyone. I was disappointed in Ginge against Jacobs, I thought he was gonna do a proper number on him, I think hes peaked though tbf
     
  2. elmaldito

    elmaldito Skillz Full Member

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    Some people just don’t have the experience to know what goes on behind the scenes or to recognize bs in the actual fight.
     
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  3. elmaldito

    elmaldito Skillz Full Member

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    I’m pretty sure Trinidad could ko foreman if he landed a clean left hook on his chin with the chito wraps.
     
  4. elmaldito

    elmaldito Skillz Full Member

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    I nominate this clown for a 1 month ban for comparing bhop and canelo. That is sacreligous!
     
  5. jaytxxl

    jaytxxl Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Damn are people really underestimating the huge size difference between the two.. Canelo's pure skills are great but he's a very small MW compared to Pavlik, Taylor, B Hop.. Im not sure Canelo is as fast as Sergio Martinez which obviously had given Pavlik troubles and i feel Sergio punch harder also.. IDK about this one hard to call either way.
     
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  6. Staminakills

    Staminakills Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Canelo you late stoppage, while winning every round by landslide
     
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  7. anjawnaymiz

    anjawnaymiz Can we get Ivan Dychko some momentum Full Member

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    Pavlik ud, too big for Canelo
     
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  8. Badbot

    Badbot I Am An Actual Pro. Full Member

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    It seems that a lot of people are banking on the size factor.

    A lot of people overlook the Chavez Jr. fight. Yes, he went into survival mode but not right off the bat. Chavez came out and tried to establish his jab, which Alvarez completely nullified.
    Granted, Chavez' reach is nothing considering his own height and he is not on Pavlik's level.
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    Then there is Rocky Fieldning. Rocky had the height and the reach but obviously lacked the skill.
    Again we see Alvarez showing he knows exactly how to work around and off of his opponents jab.
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    Now onto Daniel Jacobs; the most skilled opponent thus far, but not as tall. Regardless of height, he still possessed a great reach advantage and an educated jab.
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    And again, Alvarez showed he can deal with it.

    Too much emphasis is put on the reach factor.
    A lot of people seem to think that Pavlik was in his prime pre Taylor II.
    Well here we have Pavlik vs.Jose Luis Zertuche. Zertuche had very little problems of getting around the jab. He was able to close the distance rather easy at times.
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    And lastly the Miranda fight. Miranda moved his head really well and made Pavlik miss quite a lot. But! Pavlik kept the pressure on and absolutely demolished Miranda.
    But the important thing here is that Pavlik went toe to toe with Miranda. He got close to him. Pavlik didn't use his reach at all.

    I don't ever recall Pavlik actually using his reach to keep an opponent on the outside.
     
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  9. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Did you know he just beat Danny Jacobs?
     
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  10. DoubleJab666

    DoubleJab666 Dot, dot, dot... Full Member

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    Okay let's cut to the chase.... you're a Canelo fan, and not all you say is without merit. But to be taken seriously you have to display an ability to objectively analyse a fighter. Right now, you top my list of the forum's worst fanboys. But you have a chance to redeem yourself.

    I'll show you what I mean.

    I'm not really a 'fan' of boxers per se but the fighter who gets closest to that description would be Lennox Lewis. Despite this I am more than willing to observe his flaws and state three of them here.

    1. His chin could be got to and when it was, his powers of recovery were sub-par.
    2. He was guilty of being overly defensive when he had the tools to take opponents out: he was risk-adverse.
    3. He wasn't an effective body puncher and often chose to clinch rather than work inside

    Over to you, Shadow. List three Canelo flaws; things you don't think he is particularly good at...
     
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  11. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You didn't spell sacrilegious right. You got a problem with comparing BHop and Canelo ? In what world is comparing two fighters sacrilegious ? Sounds like you're a little overly sensitive when it comes to BHop. He can't be compared to Canelo lol, now I've heard it all.
     
  12. LANCE99

    LANCE99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's HOW you compare them jackass. .... You should probably need to spit and rinse by now....
     
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    It’s weird how Canelo would be Hopkins’ best win at 160, and Canelo’s win over GGG represents the best win at 160 between the two of them.
     
  14. LANCE99

    LANCE99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    WIns over Tito and Oscar > Canelo..... good try though.
     
  15. shadow111

    shadow111 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Canelo doesn't have many flaws, he's a seasoned fighter in his prime who has a very well rounded game. You can call me a fanboy all you want but I just appreciate what this guy has done for the sport and his skillset. He's hard to hit, he lands flashy punches, he works the body. You're asking me to list flaws of a fighter that doesn't have many obvious flaws.

    How about this, why don't you list 3 of the biggest flaws you have with Canelo and I'll evaluate the merit of the flaws you list ?

    I'm guessing your flaws are going to be related to his stamina late in fights or his tendency to be too patient at times in some of his past fights. (vs Mayweather, vs GGG 1, vs Lara to some extent, etc) However those are fights from several years ago, when you look at the fighter he is now he's improved on some of those flaws if you want to call it that.

    You look at the so-called stamina issues, it's got a lot to do with his work rate, the energy he puts in to throw eye catching dynamic punches, the constant upper body movement, etc. That's gonna tire him out over the course of 12 rounds, but he manages it all pretty well. And when you look at GGG 1 in particular, he was in complete control of GGG early on, he was putting on a clinic, which hardly anyone on here has the decency to admit which I find extremely disingenuous. I have a hard time criticizing that performance, despite being outlanded in some of the middle rounds, he was setting traps and to an extent conserving his energy in those middle rounds for the late rounds. If you're looking for flaws you can criticize his stamina on the one hand but on the other hand criticize him for conservating his energy after getting out to a lead. Finding that balance can be difficult for any fighter especially when you're in as many 12 round wars as Canelo has been in.

    I think you're going to have a difficult time coming up with flaws for this guy but I'm happy to evaluate the merit of any flaws that you think Canelo has.