It was meant to be a bit of interesting information from me but aside from it having doubted as genuine, it has taken on a life of its own.
Anything involving Marciano always does on here lol. The only people as persistent and relentless as Rocky's detractors are his defenders. Both sides have limitless endurance, arguments and counter arguments and stubbornness.
I think picking chuvalo, Terrell and Foley over the championship version of Jersey Joe Walcott would be a minority opinion among boxing people. Layne did hustle a close decision win out of Walcott just before he beat Charles for the title, but film shows Walcott wasnt showing quite the form he displayed in the two wins over Charles or the war with Rocky. It seems the Layne result was a turning point for JJW. He decided he needed to be more aggressive if he were to get another chance at the title.
Picking Layne over Walcott would be a minority opinion, point is it happened.No turning point ,Walcott was back to his old self in the 4th Charles fight.
Well it was Walcotts style to lure a guy onto a punch wasnt it? Seems to me he was luring Rocky onto his own right hand only Rocky beat him to it. It's a very famous sequence. Walcott was very good at disguising what hand he was going to use. Cleverly shifting weight from one foot to the other, by the 13th round Rocky had worked out which way he was going to spring forward and met him half way. You can clearly see walcotts right in motion.
Styles make fights, and you are absolutely correct in your assessment , Sonny destroys Rocky Marciano in a fight that would look like Foreman Frazier, Sonny would drop a game Rocky several times before being rescued by the ref in the 4th round.
That old nut meg... When was Sonny Foreman and when was Rocky Frazier? This "Foreman vs Frazier" comparison really never survives even rudimentary scrutiny on any level whatsoever. If it was so certain that one style always beats another style in exactly the same way wouldn't this mean the result would be the same in both fights? Same guys fought twice! Your going to say two different guys wind up with the same result on this rule?
Foreman-Frazier is different from Liston-Marciano but the idea is the same. Rocky Marciano was a swarmer and Liston was a slugger. It's obviously not that simple, as you stated. Marciano had short arms, there's no way he could box with Liston on the outside. He'd have to get close to have any success. Marciano has to get past Liston's jab and then try to outwork Liston on the inside. Liston loved it when his opponents came to him. Cleveland Williams had a lot of success for 2 rounds but he could never beat Liston because he brought the fight to Liston. He'd eventually get caught, as he did, twice. Liston was ~25 lbs heavier than Marciano. Liston was much stronger. Look at Liston-Patterson I, where Liston destroyed Patterson in the clinch. He literally grabbed Patterson's head with his right arm and hit him with vicious left hook that hurt Patterson. I think it's safe to say that Patterson was a more elusive target than Marciano. It took Liston one round to stop Patterson. Marciano definitely had a better chin but he can still be hurt. Marciano never faced a puncher like Liston. Liston would batter Marciano on the outside and he was the stronger fighter on the inside. Marciano was a great body-puncher and had an endless gas tank. If he can take everything Liston throws at him for 7/8 rounds, the tide will turn and Marciano will take over. Personally, I think Liston stops Marciano within the first 6 rounds. This matchup favours Liston imo.
This is not Rock paper Scissors. Boxing dosnt work like that. It's more complex. correct. When did he try to? Rocky had Charlie Goldman. His style was devised to overcome this business of distance. He crouded people. Listons jab was an attacking jab. A strong jab. It took him inside. Rocky was hard to hit with the jab. He wanted jabs to counter. he certainly did. A top level fighter being ko'd twice in consecutive fights by a single opponent is, as far as I can figure, unique in boxing history. My take is that such an dual outcome was dependent not only on what Liston brought to the table, but also what Patterson did not, whether because he was intimidated or for some other reason. Therefore I do not push Liston into the stratosphere on the basis of the Patterson fights but try to judge him the basis of his entire career, warts and all, and the Machen, Besmanoff, King, Whitehurst, etc fights were warts, as were some others. Not the nights he fought Liston. Against Sonny Fliyd froze both times. Sonny never fought a puncher like Rocky. Everyone hit Sonny. He was a sucker for a right hand. Rocky's best punch.
