Wilfred Benitez (SRL fight) vs Duran (SRL Montreal fight)

I don't think fighters change much from fight to fight or even weights. Hearns looked great with Duran, but say he fought Minchillo again on June 15, 1984 instead of Feb 11, 1984. Minchillo would probably go the distance again. And Duran would probably be knocked out in Feb. Styles make fights. Montreal Duran was not this magical guy. Leonard fought his fight and he has said it numerous times and in different ways. You guys don't want to see it. Yet I know he is not top 10 all time great.

You guys want to deny what Leonard said, and deny the rematch and rubber match, and I think you are sort of disregarding boxing history. Being selective to believe what you want. When I see a thread here which says "How good was Ken Buchanan" Most people are not talking about Buchanan here, they will say he was great of Hall of Fame to give Duran credit. It is not about following popular opinion, it is about what is the truth to give everyone a fair rating in boxing. One fight against Ray when Ray fought his fight, means more than Ray beating Duran and making him quit, and the rubber match.. Hearns, Hagler and Benitez? Impossible. My dad was a Scientist. He and I did not get a long too well and he is sick now so I am trying to make up with him, but besides that he always told me if you are going to rate something be fair about it. My friends did drugs. I never did. I don't do what other's want, I am my own person. And I think this is why I can rate this. And I do like Thomas Hearns personally, but was he top 10 all time great. Listen to me he was a great, his wins are as good as any all time great better than Duran's I think. Honestly. He knocked out greats and outpunched punches and outboxed boxers. But top 10? No probably not. He fought recklessly in fights with Leonard and Hagler which eliminates him from that consideration. A very dumb strategy with Hagler which broke his hand from being wild. I love the fight. But you have to be objective even with heros.

My point is don't follow popular belief because everyone else does, if you don't think it. And I love Duran's spirit but he needed that edge psychologically-he was a bit of a front runner. He did not come from behind much when he was losing. If a guy had the key to him they stayed with the key, which is why unfortunately I think Pernell and Floyd would beat him at lightweight also. And then when he lost he made excuses. How is that as great as you guys say? His wins are not against elites really. He fought them, but he didn't win. Barkley and Moore are not great and they should not elevate him anymore than he was. Same as Foreman should not be rated higher for beating Moorer.

Duran was dominant at lightweight against relative mediocre in comparison to elites. Listen to what that means. Then moved up and had a great win, which was turned into more. Ray gave him that. Then followed that with quitting and losing to all the 4 elites he fought. Where is the substance for top ten all time great? Tyson? Is he top ten all time great for his 1986-1989 wins?

 

I have never heard anyone say Sugar Ray Leonard is the greatest fighter who ever lived.
I have never in my life heard anyone say TOMMY HEARNS is the greatest fighter who ever lived.
I have never heard any one call Hagler or BENITEZ the great fighter who ever live.

I have many times heard people say Roberto Duran was the greatest fighter who ever lived.
I love the fact the Fighter of the Decade of the 70s entire title reign is discounted. No one have ever been champion 7 yrs then jumped up 2 divisions and was forced to wait for a title shot. The lightweight Duran pfp with everything ( speed strenth footwork power unmatched KILLER INSTINCT) KOs Leonard Hearns Hagler. As for Whitaker and Myweather at lightweight; light work.
Btw Pernell tell these people again yr theory how Whitaker beats Hagler and the others. It is very eye opening to your agenda. I will slide back in threads and find what you said. But it would be easier if you just repated how you think he beats them all.

 

I didn't know Duran beat Hagler? That is exactly it, Duran is overrated. He goes 15 with Marvin, and people turn that into a win. Then in his next fight 7 months or so later Hearns knocks him out.
I don't think he is the greatest of all time, nor top 10. He does not have the wins. And it is not about him losing to Hearns or Benitez, it is about him not winning. Being outclassed. Even Starling gave Nunn a decent fight.

I am not sure what this has to do with Pernell. whom I do not think is the greatest ever nor the top 10. Yet I think head to head Pernell beats Duran.. Absolutely. As a matter of fact there are parellels to Pernell and Ray. Pernell outclassed Ramirez much more than he had in the first fight. He grew as a fighter. Duran helped Ray, and I can tell you Ray was a greater fighter than Duran. Yes. He beat other elites with different styles. More versatile.

Light work to beat Whitaker and Mayweather. I am not a fan of Mayweather, but his style would outbox Duran.

 

Tell how you believe pernell beats Hagler and hearns. You did once.

 

What we have here gentlemen of the jury, is a clear case of the defendnt hating Roberto Duran for beating his boy Leonard easily and him NEVER getting over it. (Much like Leonard himself). To see the full delusional aspect of the defendnt you must read how he believes Pernell beats Hagler Hearns and Leonard. I say the defendnt is not guilty by reason of insanity. When Roberto Duran beat his first hero Leonard, he Duran, also took up permanent residence in the frontal lobe of pernells brain. So, I say, give pern the poster a pass and when he arrives at every Duran thread with his "Duran was 154 before all the others" take ot as you would the drunk lonely uncle who always embarresses himself at all yr family functions. He may be a pain in the ass, but he is our pain in the ass and always there for a good laugh.
So heres to you PSP pernelsweetpee, part of our family. If I am the grumpy old fart in the family, you are the beloved kook. But family nonethe less. Gday family.

 

Keep believing Leonard fought Durans fight lol. Duran didnt let him fight any other way. It was Duran who forced Leonard to fight his fight. Leonard had no choice in the matter.
We wont over this at length in a post months befor. I told you I'm not rehashing this whole thing with you. Your biased and hatred against Duran spill through in every thread about him.
CASED CLOSED. DONE WITH YOU. THREAD WAS ABOUT DURAN VS BENITEZ AND ALL YOU CAN DO IN INJECT LEONARD INTO IT. JUST STOP ALREADY

 

show me where I said this. I don't think I ever said this.

 

This is why I explained it I think in a very understandable and rather simple way. It is not complex. I am not a Leonard fan really. I thought his Lalonde fight was a joke and cheating to get two titles to match Hearns, when Hearns really won the titles.
Frontal lobe of my brain? Very unlikely my opinions from there. Memories are usually stored near the back near the occipital region or near the brain stem but can in the cortex, only few opinions regarding memory would be in the neocortex/the frontal part of the brain. That might have some memories, but the place where they are interpreted is not the frontal lobe
The problem is the drunk Uncle is not giving pretty good facts in regards to Duran, and the fact is Duran did not beat many elites except Ray, who still fought his fight. So that is how I come to the conclusion that he was not elite yet.. Not really.

 

Look at the fight. Ray started to fight that way from the get go before anyone forced that. Forcing a style is more like Hagler on Hearns, yet even Hearns didn't have to engage and start to throw punches. As Hagler said it takes two to tango. Ray did have a choice and he knew it. He said" I tried to beat that man at his own game. I tried." No hatred, what I don't like is excuses and people being unfair about how great he was. If someone is not as deserving about something I say what I feel. This is a boxing message board where opinions are being displayed. You guys want to be robots and believe the same thing, and that does not mean you are all correct. No way. I know what I saw and it is not about hate. I bet I would like Duran more than all the fab 4 guys in someways. He certainly has the best and most real personality of them all. Which is why people love him, and he is charismatic. But he lacks the wins to be as great as you guys say. As great as you guys say.

 

In a Feb 1980 poll in The Ring magazine (before) fighting Leonard by the way) experts voted Roberto #9 of all time pfp. And I will find the whitaker thread to prove you are lying UncleFester

 

Ray always said things to try an put himself in a better light. It was NOT his game plan like that e says to beat Duran at his own g as me. Duran wouldn't let him fight any other way. He was on him like a wet blanket. We went through this already months ago! What is your problem man? I tried to tell you more than once we did this already. I'm not going to respond anymore and keep rehashing this crap. Be respectful and just drop it with me already.

 

What are you talking about? What is my problem as though I have one and you are the logical one because you think your opinion is right? We are both saying our opinions on a very controversial subject, but I know I have am right about this. Maybe you think you are right also, but the facts are in the videos and Ray's comments-and the two fights after with Ray- with supplemental support showing Duran losing to Benitez and Hearns, and somehow because I don't believe what you do I have a problem?

That is almost insanity trying to make it look like I have the problem, and you guys on here are the ones acting like the mob mentality and you seem to want me to just back off because you all believe the same thing. I have to remind you guys, this is a boxing message board and nothing I have done is out of line or wrong on here, and I have not lied. I use facts. If this site wants to ban me fine, I will leave and never come back, but this is my opinion and I believe it. And Ray stated numerous times over the years how he fought Duran's fight. Whether he changed his opinion now would lead to me scrutinize Ray's motives. Ray said for years he fought the wrong fight, and the fights side by side prove it.. You don't have to respond anymore. Please don't if you and others like John Thomas cannot take the heat. This is what I believe. I don't follow the typical or popular opinions.

 

If Pernell and Hagler were the same weight? Pernell would outbox him no doubt. The question is the size of Hagler. I can go back and forth on that one. Pernell was a great. I think he would outbox Duran and win almost every round. He is one of my favorite fighters. Pernell's style of sitting back and countering could be a big problem for Hagler seeing how Hagler could fight too nonaggressive.. Hagler likes the aggressive guys, which is something Hearns did not anticipate. Hagler would have to use his jab well to beat Pernell even at middleweight. That is a tough pick. I like Hagler but his biggest win was Hearns. He fought a great fight. Yet I would never say Pernell would beat Hearns. Hearns right hand would be too much of a problem and he would probably lose a decision. Back in 1985/1986 after Curry beat McCrory people were saying he was the next Ray Leonard-which was started by HBO and Larry Merchant. What does it matter what the current consensus is. Fighters always go down in ranking as time goes by. Duran lacks the wins against elites to be top 10 All time great. If he is in there, you can put another 30 people in there, and then you don't have the top 10 you have the top 30.

 

Dont put your spin on it.
Did we or did we not go through all this months ago???? Well we did and I've been trying to politely tell you over and over I'm not rehashing it all over again even though your trying hard to regress to that. Not only that the thread is about BENITEZ but it always reverts to Leonard with you.
I'm happy to comment on other subjects with you but I'm done here say whatever else you want I'm done now.