Wilfred Benitez (SRL fight) vs Duran (SRL Montreal fight)

I actually agree that Hearns winning at LHW is just as impressive as Durán winning at MW.

A lot of these comparative wins/losses go by the rock/paper/scissors analogy:

Hearns/Durán/Barkley

What was it about Barkley's style that was like kryptonite for Hearns?

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Benítez had a good strategy. He actually got up close with Durán and got the better of the exchanges, something which Leonard could not do.

 

I don't think it applies as much with Barkley in the comparisons because of Barkley as an opponent. Barkley lost to most top guys he fought so saying this is because of Duran? Anyone who fought Barkley would then be ahead of Hearns since most beat Barkley and Hearns did not.

I don't think Barkley was a great fighter but he had Hearns number. Hearns beat Benitez and Duran when both were champs at 154 and Duran did not lose much at that time so Hearns,Benitez and Duran were equal fighters in skill and quality- and Benitez at that time only lost to Ray when he fought Duran and Hearns. So that makes it a bigger statement obviously
.. I think the great fighters and legends (or equal level fighters) are more significant in the comparisons. Same as most people don't think about Minchillo who fought both Duran and Hearns in those early 1980s. It can show us power differences maybe, but is the Wilder vs. this guy Brazeale proving more than Joshua vs. Brazeale on style? We don't know. Brazeale is not an equal fighter to Joshua or Wilder so it is rather insignificant.

What was Hearns kryptonite with Barkley's style? It was the fact that Barkley did not have great defense so Hearns could land on him easily and in landing Tommy exposed his chin, but Barkley had a lot of heart to throw as he was hurt. Had he had better defense Hearns would just sit back and use the jab and not tried to land his big punches (then not leaving himself open), but since he was easy to hit Hearns would throw and leave himself open since he was easy to hit and in range and Barkley's wide punches worked well with Hearns range when he was punching. The range of Hearns chin from Barkley's hooks whether rights or lefts worked well, being Barkley was also near his height. Just the style and size. Duran could get under Barkley's punches better he was shorter. But that is why Barkley as an opponent figures into it here. Duran would never get under Hearns power. Hearns was too sharp and fast.

As for Barkley. he would punch as he was getting hurt and was a bit awkward. He even hit Toney with nice punches, one which was of note. Hearns was going to get a 4th round TKO had he just used the jab and kept Barkley bleeding and the body punches were really hurting him. Many people do not realize that not many guys knocked out Barkley except Benn on the 3 knockdown rule, but Hearns was going to get a legit TKO had he not been knocked out himself.. I think Robbie Sims knocked him out early in his career in 1984, but I would have to check the record to be sure, but I am pretty sure it was 84 on ESPN.

Regardless of that I don't think Barkley builds Duran up or takes Hearns down much. Because of Barkley as an opponent. I think the comparisons and all that works better with guys who don't lose much or rather who are better fighters since then you can compare what it took to beat the better skilled levels (seemingly equal in two legendary fighters).

No one thinks about Holmes stopping Leon Spinks easily and Ali struggling in the first fight as much as the Ali/Holmes fight in October of 1980.. Since both guys fought then yet we all know Ali was washed up by that point. But still that fight holds much more significance than the comparisons against Leon who was not Larry or Ali's equal.

The comparison without a great or an equal fighter is not as significant is my point. or another way to put it Bert Cooper almost stopped Holyfield, yet was easily beaten by Foreman. So this equals out Holyfield beating Foreman and makes Foreman equal to Holyfield? No Holyfield (a great) beat Foreman a great and in my mind the Cooper fight does not mean much. If Lloyd Honeyghan stopped Tomas Molinares, would that make up for Starling beating Honeyghan?

 

I'm sorry? Who is Wilfred Benitez....

 

If that was the reason, don't you think Hearns should have been able to adjust his style in the rematch? Instead:

'I was in deep water with a very tough man, so I had to swim or drown,' Hearns said. 'I felt the fight was sort of close, but I felt I was doing more.'

'I fought a bad fight because I never used my style,' Hearns said. 'Iran won it. For some strange reason I didn't want to get out and box.'

Was it that Barkley didn't let him use his style? Maybe Hearns did want to box but Iran's constant pressure didn't allow him.

What if Hearns had run and clowned around as Leonard did against Durán?

 

Happy Memorial Day Pernellsweetpea! As always, i love the to and fro. Lets me know I'm still alive. You are the Leonard to my Duran lol. We just dont get the cash those two did when they argued in public. Again. Happy Memorial Day and God Bless America! Rest of the world too.

 

It was combination of things. Hearns style and impatience and easily hitting Barkley, and Hearns never could hold back if a guy was easy to hit. Even in 1994 he fought a guy named Freddie Delgado. Look up that fight. Delgado was not much of a fighter and he swarmed Hearns. He took the punches and Tommy kept punching and won that, but it was hard for him. I think Hearns had a broken jaw, but no one said anything but if you see him after the fight his jaw was swollen and he didn't talk much. And then you have Ed Dalton in 1997 a fight I was at when I lived in California. At the Forum.... Called the fighting grocer. swarmed and Tommy won but it was again the swarming style. Take punches in order to give them. It was style matchup. But to be honest, there was something to Hearns weakness right there which hurts his legacy. A bit of a risk taker and leaving his chin out there when he was landing. Usually he was not hit..

People rarely hear me say anything about Duran and Kirkland Laing because I don't read much into one fight and one style.. And Laing was not that good, so there were other factors. I don't hold that fight against Duran at all. But Barkley and Laing to me (yes Barkley is better but still lost to most good fighters) cannot be used as measuring sticks. Not really. Hearns struggled with Roldan, but perhaps Ray Leonard would have beaten him easier. He wouldn't have stopped him in 4, but he might have won by 10th round TKO and not been hit as much as Tommy..Styles make fights. I think Duran would have stopped Roldan. He would loved it. Yet Olajide I think might beat Duran. All styles.

Hearns did adjust and in the rematch I think Barkley had 2 broken ribs and his face was busted up, and I thought (meaningless really) Hearns was on the verge of knocking out Barkley in round 12. Did you know at the post fight press conference Barkley could barely walk and he had a cut head. Hearns came out bad also. Broken nose with blood all over and hurt hand. Like I said no excuse here but Hearns had that weakness a little if guys swarmed him and could take his punch they could make it interesting. That was a brutal fight which declined both guys. As for Hearns -Most guys could not handle his sharp punching. Most fighters have a weakness if they fight long enough it is found out. Once Hagler swarmed Hearns other guys did it. Once Leonard outboxed Duran other guys did it. Whether subconscious or not, it happened more.

I think Hearns weakness was swarmers as Duran's was boxers, but the thing is Hearns did better against the great fighters head to head in someway, although there are variations.

Hearns didn't mind boxing guys, but the problem with his style was if a guy could be hit Hearns could not hold back. It was a bad weakness and opened him up to counters. The key was to take Hearns out of his rhythm and gameplan, but not many guys could do it. Barkley could. Giving him credit.

And with Barkley, Barkley was easy to hit and Hearns threw punches. Hearns should have used his jab and landed punches and held. But that one flaw held him back... Impatience. I love the punches Hearns landed on Barkley. And at the end of round 10 I think Hearns found the key to the fight. I think I round 10. Hearns landed a left to the body and a left upstairs and Barkley just stopped and he was hurt. It hurt him, and Hearns threw that minutes later maybe in round 11 and it happened again. I think that was punch was there for him later..
But with Barkley in the rematch. Barkley did well. but Hearns in both fights had the answer. It was a tough style, but he was on the verge in both fights. It was not like Duran losing to Ray and Wilfred and Hearns where it was onesided. And that backs my comments about they were better fighters than Barkley obviously.

 

Same to you. By the way, I don't take any of this personally.. It is all fun to me. I enjoy it.. It gets me out of my real life which is a good thing let me tell you. It is a fascinating sports. The best to you.

 

Yeah. Where else can we argue a sport we love. 40 yrs ago in a bar. Too old for that now and anyway now people in bars dont watch boxing. And NO ONE watches the past. Even though these arguments seem heated we all need each other to enjoy the arguments we like.

 

Hearns though.

 

Jon Snow knew so little he banged his own genocidal aunt. @PernellSweetPea Just putting that into context for the non-GOT fans in here.

 

Exactly. Hearns was not someone Duran could beat. In one instant people will say Hearns was too big for Duran, then the next Montreal Duran would beat him.. Which one? I think Hearns knocks out Duran in 4 rounds at welterweight. I always thought 4 instead of 2.. Not because Duran was younger, but because Hearns was younger and not as experienced as he was in 1984. Duran would have never been able to take Hearns' punches. He never faced anyone with that speed combined with leverage before or after Hearns. The style and speed and jab of Tommy with him counterpunching when Duran got close would be too much for Duran. If Duran was wild Hearns would hurt him coming in. Tommy punched a lot harder than Leonard.

 

I agree. It is a good time on here. I enjoy the message board and you guys are fun to talk back and forth to. Even though it seems like I am getting worked up talking about Duran or whatever, I am not- I have been typing this same stuff for so many years I can almost type it out automatically-which is why sometimes I read what I typed later and I left out a word or misspelled. Before the internet I would read my boxing magazines alone and watch the fights and talked to no one about it. I wish I had more enthusiam for the era today, and finally it does seem to be getting better lately with Floyd out of the game and some up and coming fighters looking like they will be tops. When I say Floyd out of the game, I think he orchestrated fights and dominated the limelight with that MTM stuff. Too much of his ego and less exciting fights. Canelo and Spence and Joshua and Wilder, Loma, and even Mikey Garcia who I think was put down unfairly against Spence. I want to see how he does against Danny. I think Mikey wins. The fighters now are sharing the spotlight a little more and fighting more naturally without the setups. So I like the era what is coming. I think things have improved and I do think DAZN or whatever it is called has helped spark up interest. The promotional companies now have to out do the other ones. That never hurts to have them compete. I think the 2020's will be good for boxing or rather boxing will have a good era in the next decade. I get that feeling. Maybe another fab 4 kind of competitive era will come up again. I hope it is in the Welt to Mid. range like before. Would be fun.

 

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Amen to that

 

PSP I like alot of your posts and I'm in agreement with alot of your opinions and some not. Just the way it is.
I'll never c eye to eye with you on Duran which is why I kept insisting that I no longer wanted to speak on it as I've exhausted myself on the subject. You may have taken it as hard feelings but it's not. I'm just done on it and have moved on. Everything is kool on my end.