If Schwarz beats Fury would Schwarz be the lineal champion?

That’s very true, anyone can be lineal champion. But let’s be fair all round, anyone can be an ABC champion as well. Only difference in the current heavyweight scene is that fury would have been stripped by the ABCs while he can still hold on to the lineal title status.

Like I said, the value of it is in the eye of the beholder.

 

" Glass Joe was the challenger with the 1 & 99 record who knocked out the champ who came out of retirement in the scenario ( Kudos to anyone who gets the Glass Joe reference ) sine the discussion revolves when a champ who retired comes back they are considered the lineal champ at that point no matter what happened in between.. Thats why the whole concept to me at least that if you retire you are still lineal makes no sense to me.

 

Fury beat the Wlad that hadn't lost in a decade, in Germany. This allowed Joshua to win the belt (at home) against Charles Martin. This allowed Parker to win the belt (at home) against the fat kid from Up.

The loss Wlad took also made it easier for Joshua to win that particular fight, since Wlad was older, away from home and had lost confidence.

Regardless of definitions, this is really the foundation of Fury's claim. That he faced the HARDER challenge and beat the true king of the division, unlike the others. At least Parker is honest about it and admits Fury did the important deed, releasing the belts from Wlad.

 

This is a touchy issue, but not a complex one. The word "lineal" has a specific meaning that only Tyson Fury can claim. PERIOD. So yes. If this equivalent to Bobby Crabtree beats him he will be the lineal champ. PERIOD

However. He completely disappeared for 2 years after becoming lineal champ. Since his comeback he's beat an overweight midget and drawn with the most unskilled HW champ since Berbick. So I understand the dilemma, and the dilemma is this....

The current lineal HW champ, a belt held by all time greats from Louis to Lewis, could now possibly be held by some chump that may not be as good as Bobby Crabtree. It's a heartbreaking dilemma, but it's the sad truth of the modern HW division

 

If, during the time Fury was out of the game, Joshua and Wilder had squared off and one of the two took all 4 belts home with him, then I guess Fury would default on his lineal status. But as we know ... those two never did that ... so Fury it is.

 

Exactly.
That's what people don't seem to get.

Yes, Tyson Fury "retired", he "disappeared", he was completely out of the picture.
He was in no position to claim LINEAL championship status if someone had stepped up and established a new lineage.
But no one did so. He left a void and no one stepped in.
So when he came back he had every right to claim LINEAL status.

 

I think the lineal thing only works if fury was a current champ and schwarz beats him, how can he be the lineal champ of no belt?

 

The lineal champ tag is as meaningful as the WBC Diamond, the WBA "regular" and the IBO title

 

If you're asking me to remember who else was a 'top' heavyweight in 2007, well, I'm afraid the old memory's going a bit (let's face it old Wladdy lost to a few as well). But I think you're getting confused with the concept of what a lineal champion actually is. It's not something you can 'consider' somebody. You either are lineal or you aren't and if you want to establish lineage then you need to have established yourself as the only claimant by defeating the holders of all the other belts. Ala Hopkins, Usyk. Wlad always had a rival claimant, whether it be his brother, Wilder, whoever. Therefore, is he a unified champ, yes, is he the lineal champ, no. The true meaning of 'lineal' has got lost over the last few years with Ring Magazine deciding to appoint a 'champ' based on fights between the top 2/3 fighters in the division and people mistakenly confusing the two.

 

Lol you think Fury is the best heavyweight in the world? Why? Because he ran and landed 86 punches in 12 rounds against a old Wlad. Or because he ran, got knocked down twice, and landed 84 punches in 12 rounds against overrated Deontay Wilder?

 

Pretty much the definition of lineal, isnt it?

 

Schwarz will turn from an undefeated prospect to a champion in waiting...assuming Fury losses the rematch that would follow

Tom is not beating Fury though.

 

Box to YOUR strengths, why would he stand in front and take punches he didn't have too. Old Wlad, that Wlad was still 18 months younger than the Wlad that produced a decent performance in an up and down fight with Joshua.

 

Probably because you are a grown man in a physical contact sport. Who cares what Wlad did against AJ? That just shows you how bad the heavyweight division is. The point is Tyson Fury's best win was against a old timid Wlad where he only landed 86 punches in 12 rounds. That is pathetic. If you don't think it is then either you are a biased Brit boxing fan or just a clueless casual boxing fan.