What if I replaced Wladimir Klitschko with Jersey Joe Walcott? Would you bring up his knockout losses to Al Ettore, Tiger Jack Fox, and Abe Simon. And the decisions he dropped against Johnny Allen, Roy Lazer, George Brothers, Billy Ketchel, and Tiger Jack Fox. Or is it just Wladimir? Everyone knows Wlad peaked late. So did Lennox Lewis. If Wlad was in his prime when he lost to Lamon Brewster, how did he go undefeated over the next 11½ years? He was dominating Brewster before the KO. He did the same in the rematch without getting knocked out. "If zero skill fat Caveman Sam Peter can land wide slow telegraphed hooks from a mile away Cooney will reach WK's chin too with the left hook, guaranteed, and we all know how much glass WK is packing." Peter didn't land wide, slow telegraphed hooks. Most of the left hooks he landed were off the right hand. He dropped Wlad twice by hitting him in the back of the head. The third time he dropped Wlad was with a straight right hand. Wlad won every round where he wasn't dropped. Peter landed 100 / 440 punches. 23%. Wlad landed 204 / 523. 39%. You're making it sound like Peter exposed Wlad lol. Peter was a good fighter in his day, just like Cooney. A champion, unlike Cooney. Peter was also a 7-5 favourite against Wlad. I think it was Wlad who ended up exposing Peter. You're bringing up fights that don't represent prime Wladimir. We know he doesn't have a great chin. But don't bring up fights where he wasn't at his best to make a case for Cooney. I can easily bring up the Spinks fight or the Foreman fight. Wladimir dominated Peters in the rematch. Wlad dominated Brewster in the rematch. Simple reason being, he got better. His reign lasted 9 years. Go and bring me a fight from those 9 years and then make a case for Cooney. That's a long period. If Wlad is such a bum that falls from every left hook he gets hit with, he should have gone down at least once over 9 years. Not a single time. A better question would be, how many left hooks did Wlad get hit with in 9 years lol. We can all talk shi-t but not everyone can back it up. Wlad was an all-time great heavyweight who would destroy Cooney 10/10 times, 9/10 if I'm in a better mood. This isn't a washed up Ken Norton or Ron Lyle. A prime Wladimir Klitschko is just as tall as Cooney, bigger & stronger than Cooney, hits harder than Cooney, is wayyyyyyyy more skilled than Cooney, and also more athletic than Cooney. Haye, Povetkin, Chambers, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Byrd, Pulev were all good fighters that Wlad beat. All were in their primes. Who did Cooney beat? What makes this a 50/50 fight in your view. If it's just the power, people should have also viewed Wlad vs Povetkin as 50/50. How come Wlad was a 12 to 1 favourite against a skilled fighter & devastating puncher like Povetkin? And Wlad dominated Povetkin. Ugly but that's not the point. "That is a 50/50 fight, jab and grab aint working with Cooney due to his size and strenghth...........WK folded like a cheap suit after Brewster hit him with a body shot.........same shot from Cooney will end the fight." Jab and grab has nothing to do with size and strength. You don't think juiced up Povetkin was strong? Pulev, Thompson, Peter, Chagaev were all strong fighters. This is Cooney we're talking about, not Frank "The Tank" Bruno. Wlad didn't fold from a body shot. Wladimir was hurt by an overhand right with a few seconds left in the round. He had already been dropped earlier. He was clearly hurt from before and he just collapsed when the round ended. I didn't see a bodyshot. Prime Wlad dominates prime Cooney.
I think your point regarding Walcott is a great one. However, I watched all of Wlad's televised fights. And, I just don't buy that he was truly any better under Steward. He just learned how to fight more cautiously to protect his Achilles heel (chin). With the exception of the much smaller Haye, he fought no punchers after the embarrassing KO to Brewster. And, the fact that he did not rematch Sanders or Brewster (until years later after Brewster was legally blind in one eye) tells me all I need to know about Wlad. He was a huge, disciplined, well conditioned (but likely roided) athlete. He was never a "Fighter." When a fighter actually had the tools to return fire on Wlad (admittedly, a tall order), Wlad invariably failed.... and failed quickly. While not a certainty by any means, it is certainly a possibility against the tall and hard punching Cooney that Wlad gets laid out cold. Prime Cooney was every bit as good as the fat 36 year old version of Sanders that walked right through Wlad.
I don't know man. I was very impressed with Wlad against AJ. He was 41 at the time. Got up from a knockdown which looked like the beginning of the end (cuz it's Wlad) and he came back to drop AJ and outbox him for a while. Got dropped twice in the 11th and got up back. I don't think it's fair to say he was never a fighter. He was hurt badly against Purrity and he was exhausted. Not an excuse but it's a young Wlad who didn't know how to pace himself. You're right the rematch against Brewster was a little late but Brewster was still a top 10 fighter. And he wasn't legally blind in one eye (yet). There's also something about Wlad being poisoned in the first fight. I don't think it's fair to make excuses for either fighter. Brewster was a top 10 heavyweight and he's hardly one of Wlad's best wins. Let's look at the punchers Wlad fought on the way up, despite having a weak chin- Purrity, Barrett, Jefferson, McCline, Nicholson. Purrity and Jefferson were good punchers, the rest were decent. He also fought Sanders and Brewster. He didn't have to fight either. Neither were ranked. Why pick an unranked fighter who can knock you out? I'm sure there were safer options for a prospect with financial backing. After he got knocked out by Brewster, he fought DaVarryl Williamson in his very next fight. That's suicide. You can't say Wlad wasn't a fighter. He didn't duck punchers in order to establish himself. He fought Peter when Peter was undefeated and knocking out everyone. Peter was the favourite in that fight. That is terrible matchmaking considering Wlad's weakness was big punchers. He fought Brewster, Williamson, Castillo, Peter back to back. 4 punchers with a combined 85% KO percentage. He fought: Peter twice, David Haye, Alexander Povetkin. Great punchers (for their era). Some of the biggest punchers at the time. Ray Austin and Sultan Ibragimov were good punchers Even Tony Thompson, Chagaev, Pulev were decent punchers. You won't find a heavyweight who fought all-time great punchers back to back. There are some fighters Wlad fought who lacked real punching power but they were skilled fighters- Chris Byrd, Eddie Chambers, and Bryant Jennings. I can't really go into how Wlad's style changed over the years. Here's a brief version: developed a legitimate guard (long guard), learned to pace himself and be less aggressive, stopped backing away with his hands down and chin up, learned to set up his right hand better, and developed better defence and better distance management over time. He did get better with time. There's no doubt about that. I think Povetkin and Haye were much better than Sanders and Brewster. They should have at least hurt Wlad once if he hadn't gotten better at all. They went 24 rounds and didn't even stun Wlad, they hardly landed clean punches tbh. Wlad didn't just learn how to protect his chin, he was an all around better fighter. Maybe you're right in a way. His defence improved significantly over the years. His jab was brilliant. I think it belongs up there with Sonny Liston. Certainly better than Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe's jab. His right hand was literally one of the most devastating punches in boxing history. Just because he was more cautious and rarely let it go, it doesn't mean it wasn't effective. Frugal is the right term lol. I don't see how Cooney can survive that right hand because a straight punch always beats a looping punch. And we're talking about a superior technician with a supreme right hand. I have complete faith in Wlad's ability to set-up his right and land his right when the time is right. Wlad was a fighter imo. Not a fighter like Frazier or Marciano but a fighter nonetheless. He never ducked anyone in his career. His fight against AJ should be enough to show you that he had heart. It's no different from Holyfield going down against Cooper and getting up to fight back. There is nothing more you could ask him to do. He never suffered a dramatic beatdown and came back to win. But that isn't important. Even if you don't consider Wlad a fighter, it doesn't make a difference. He was skilled enough to outbox Cooney and knock him out. You said when fighter who "had the tools to return fire on Wlad, Wlad invariably failed". I think Wlad failed when he was knocked out. The same way Lewis failed against McCall and Rahman. Doesn't mean they had the tools to return fire. Wlad won every single round against Purrity before he was stopped. He won every round against Brewster before he was stopped. The tool they had was KO power. Same tool Sanders had. They were never good enough to outbox Wlad. Not even the clumsy, drunken Wlad. Tyson Fury beat a 39 year old Wlad. I don't think we can give him to much shi-t for losing at that point. After dominating the division for 9 years. To a very talented fighter by the way. Who'd be nightmare for most great fighters from the past. Wlad failed a few times but he passed enough times. Don't you think Haye and Povetkin had the tools to at least make Wlad struggle a little? It can't only be the fighters that beat Wlad. There must be some fights where Wlad didn't fail. Anyways, we can agree to disagree. I think Wladimir is one of the best heavyweights of all time in terms of skillset and I don't think Cooney stands a chance here, the same way he didn't stand a chance against Holmes.
To show your master of distance , you actually have to be facing an attacker thats good on the front foot , Haye wasn't. He was a natural fackfoot/ambush fighter who was awkward and uncoordinated on the going forward. He mounted very little pressure against Wlad , but when he did , Wlad held excessively , to the point where it cost him a point deduction. Wlad beat Haye not by being a master of distance , but by being taller and longer against a guy who wasn't an effective aggressor. And still , it was Haye who landed the bet shot of the fight when he went for it in the 12th , which had Wlad yet again holding on illegally. There should be no contact at all between you and the opponent if you are a master at controlling the range. Wlad repeatedly held a small guy shy opponent , so logic states he states he wouldn't be able to hold off the much larger , more aggressive Cooney who had a 5 inch advantage in reach over Haye. So , no Haye wasn't a masterful display of controlling distance. . Gimmie another name?
If you're an ATG , you should be looking good and not bad against a guy like Sam Peter. Jeff Lacy was the SMW version of Sam Peters. Many had him the favorite to beat Calzaghe. Joe ended up mopping the floor with him. Wlad should have been able to do the same with the awful Sam Peter. Peter never beat anybody of note and lost to every top ranker he fought , what was on display to a reasonable person was Wlad weaknesses and not Peters strengths. An obese 5'11 James Toney had far less trouble with Peter than Wlad did. Thats reality.
DumboStupid takes the bar and doesn't just raise it for Wlad, he puts that sucker on a rocket and shoots it into orbit. Maybe Dildo can link to a fight where a " master at controlling the range" won a fight without getting hit A SINGLE TIME. Not even Willie Pep or Locche could do that. The Plague Rat's hatred for Wlad knows no bounds.
BCS8 is an extremely insecure and small minded little man who freaks out everytime he reads my posts. He combats my "hate" with vicious , vile and hateful personal attacks. He's a grotesque human and his deranged obsession with me has no place on the classic forum. @McGrain
Yep. He's one of those guys who can dish it out but can't take the incoming. His double standards and propensity to lie are rather irritating.
No no, put him on ignore. Then you won't be able to see his posts. I understand the reluctance, but that is literally problem solved, forever.