Any competent logician could - and indeed necessarily would - have told you they had nothing resembling an argument beforehand on that score. This is what's bound to happen when you overextraoplate from short term trends. Now to be clear, this doesn't demonstrate or even indirectly suggest that Dempsey or Liston would beat Joshua, but it does vividly falsify the proposition that they're too small to have a realistic chance. (A categorical claim is soundly refuted by a single counterexample.) By far the best argument the "modernists" still have going is one of talent pools, which one has to admit unfortunately remains inconclusive.
"This could be a Louis-Schmeling moment, where this fight propels him to another level." Indeed it could. It's fine to gloat a little, but we shouldn't gloat that this proves any more than it actually does.
To be fair to Joshua a loss isn’t a big deal. It’s all about how he comes back, since almost every great fighter in the past took a loss.
I'm sounding like a hater of AJ but the dude I'm responding to is an idiot of note. Ruiz has decent skills but nothing elite. His handspeed is great for his size and he looks to have self belief, a great fighting spirit and a pretty good grounding in the fundamentals. I like him, I'm happy for him and I think it is great for boxing that he took this opportunity. Another poster was stating that a guy like AJ who has only fought 23 times needs to be more active than he's been of late and I reckon thats a good point. He looked flat tonight. There wasn't much snap or fluidity on his punches, he looked totally reactive and not instinctual if you know what I mean. Just uncharacteristically off is how I would describe him. If you watch how he looked against Klitschko or Whyte compared to today and the difference is stark. How he responds will be fascinating and taking an immediate rematch with a guy who battered you always has its inherent risks (see Price-Thompson 2). It will be interesting but I agree that we should wait and see with AJ.
Bowe does not belong in a list of top heavyweights. He is overrated. He was not that good. He ducked the toughest fight and the most iconic fight he could have with Lennox, who fought everyone which Bowe did not. Bowe then fought has beens or up and comers. Golota beat him around,and Lennox destroyed Golota in one. Bowe was hurt by Holyfield. a small heavyweight. His resume is not that great. Saying Bowe would beat AJ? Sure why not. Right now that will be said. My comment was about Bowe being in that list. Bowe is not great or near it.
The muscle bound pompous ***** was exposed as the chinny oversized cash cow he is hopefully Eddie gets off his tit while he can and AJ stops being put in the same breath as the greats and being called the "heavyweight king" disgrace!
Joshua's ability to take a punch (and recuperate as well) could be a real dilemma going forward. He looks a bit suss at this point.
It is such an upset, that I am struggling to process where it leaves the division! I guess that nobody would argue with the winner of Fury Wilder II being lineal now!
I'm not one of the guys who routinely picks modern fighters to beat ye olde fighters; nor am I guy who routinely favours the old timers. But I don't understand the claims being made here (except for ppl picking AJ to beat ATGs, those days are done for the moment!). Ruiz was fat for Dimitrenko. Everyone was shouting about how he would sharpen up and come in nearer 250 than 260. Ruiz did the opposite. Ruiz came in 2lbs shy of 270lbs. He bulked up for this fight. He wanted to be bigger, not smaller. He tried to make him as unlike Rocky, Demspey, etc., as was possible for him. Then he tried to master moving energy through that heavy body for the KO, which he achieved. Ruiz came in weighing 65lbs heavier than Jack Dempsey. I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.
There are other questions that I am having to process quickly. Where does this sit in the pantheon of all times upsets? What are the implications of Ruiz being a unified champion? Why didn't I buy the fight?
People who know boxing have been remarking on how incredibly overrated Joshua is for some time now. Also, most of us knew he was a KO defeat waiting to happen. The signs were there in several fights. It's not a huge surprise he lost like this. BUT very few people thought Andy Ruiz would do it. Not that Ruiz's ability was unknown. But his physical equipment seemed lacking. I just didn't think he could do it with his short arms. ..... and, to be fair, he has a very good chin and needed it.
There I would have to disagree. Even if he bounces back emphatically, it would be hard to find a great fighter who has lost to an opponent of similar caliber, at a comparable stage of their career! There probably are examples, but I am struggling to find them!
No, I think if he bounces back and establishes a reign, people are bound to pretend the loss doesn't matter much, and make some excuses for it, file it under 'fluke' or 'green' or 'unmotivated' or something. Same thing they do with LENNOX LEWIS, MIKE TYSON, WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO to some extent. The "Golden Boy" fighters, the favourites, always get a lot of passes for their losses. This forum is full of such alibi making exercises. You can throw JOE LOUIS in there too (for the Schmeling defeat, although to be fair, he was only 2 years into his pro career at that stage).